Submerging has a recent post touting Henri Nouwen via Ben Witherington.
Submerging is an arm ministry of Reclaiming the Mind
"This is the community blog of Reclaiming the Mind Ministries and sister blog to Parchment and Pen. We have a variety of contributors who add daily to the contents. The discussion is biblical, Christ-centered, and irenic.The views expressed here do not necessarily represent that of Reclaiming the Mind Ministries (although we are hopeful!)"
Favorite quotes of Nouwen given by Joanie D:
“To wait open-endedly is an enormously radical attitude toward life. So is to trust that something will happen to us that is far beyond our own imaginings. So, too, is giving up control over our future and letting God define our life, trusting that God molds us according to God’s love and not according to our fear.
“If it is true that God in Jesus Christ is waiting for our response to divine love, then we can discover a whole new perspective on how to wait in life.”
Ben Witherington (RTM's Converse With a Scholar offered him in the past although finding a direct link to him is removed for some reason) is pro-Roman Catholic, which means he's ecumenical and does not understand how the Gospel stands in contrast to what the RCC teaches:
He writes for inter-religious beliefnet:
“There can be little doubt that Cardinal Ratzinger had some of these deeper nuances of "following" in mind when he preached the Pope's homily. After all, we have now learned that the Holy Father actually contemplated stepping down in 2000, but then realized that Jesus had called him, like he had called Peter (his protégé and model as Pope) to follow him, even unto death, as a leader of the church. He was to spend his life force in that service, pouring out his life as an example of self-sacrificial love for others--the very opposite of self-centered or selfish behavior.
We may trust he has by now heard the Lord say those very things to him. We may hope that the next Pope is nearly so good and gracious a follower of the one who said "Follow me."
Its no wonder then, that Witherington has offered Nouwen as a positive teacher for his readers.
Richard Nouwen
"Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God's house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God."—From Sabbatical Journey, Henri Nouwen's last book page 51, 1998 Hardcover Edition
New Age Universalism:
Prayer is soul work because our souls are those sacred centers where all is one, ... It is in the heart of God that we can come to the full realization of the unity of all that is. (From Bread for the Journey)
"a place for everyone in heaven"(Life of the Beloved - p. 53)
"The God who dwells in our inner sanctuary is the same as the one who dwells in the inner sanctuary of each human being." Here and Now by Henri Nouwen; page 22
Henri Nouwen and His Buddhist Sympathies
Seminaries, Bible-studies and churches use his materials and quote from him. What did he really believe? by Ray Yungen
An individual who has gained popularity and respect in Christian circles, akin to that of Thomas Merton, is the now deceased Catholic theologian Henri Nouwen. Like Merton, Nouwen combines a strong devotion to God with a poetic, comforting, yet distinctly intellectual style that strikes a strong and sympathetic chord with what could be called Christian intelligentsia. Many pastors and professors are greatly attracted to his deep thinking. In fact, one of his biographers revealed that in a 1994 survey of 3,400 U.S. Protestant church leaders, Nouwen ranked second only to Billy Graham in influence among them.
Nouwen also attracts many lay people who regard him as very inspirational. One person told me that Nouwen's appeal could be compared to that of motherhood a warm comforting embrace that leaves you feeling good. Despite these glowing attributes, several aspects of Nouwen's spirituality have earned him a place in this book.
Unfortunately, this widely read and often-quoted author, at the end of his life, stated in clear terms that he approached God from a universalistic view. He proclaimed:
Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God's house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God.
Nouwen's endorsement of a book by Hindu spiritual teacher Eknath Easwaran, teaching mantra meditation, further illustrates his universalistic sympathies. On the back cover, Nouwen stated, "This book has helped me a great deal."—Read Entire Article, Henri Nouwen and Buddhism
Ray Yungen goes on to say:
Nouwen also wrote the foreword to a book that mixes Christianity with Hindu spirituality, in which he says:
[T]he author shows a wonderful openness to the gifts of Buddhism, Hinduism and Moslem religion. He discovers their great wisdom for the spiritual life of the Christian ... Ryan [the author] went to India to learn from spiritual traditions other than his own. He brought home many treasures and offers them to us in the book.
God demands purity in doctrine and practice. Nouwen, Witherington, and Submerge does not.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, 2Co 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."
Jer 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning, that they may hear? Behold, their ears are uncircumcised, they cannot listen; behold, the word of the LORD is to them an object of scorn; they take no pleasure in it.
Claiming what you are doing for the glory of God or for His church won't work. Its been done before by the slick false prophets of old:
Jer 7:4 Do not trust in these deceptive words: 'This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.'
Peace? Shiloh ("Peace")will not have peace, nor will those "temples of the Lord" that combine pagan practices and doctrint with Truth. Using His name as a mantra for His glory yet combining it with evil doctrine and practices like that of the Occult and New Age will anger God:
Jer 7:9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, 10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, 'We are delivered!'--only to go on doing all these abominations? Jer 7:11 Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, declares the LORD. Jer 7:12 Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of my people Israel. Jer 7:13 And now, because you have done all these things, declares the LORD, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer, Jer 7:14 therefore I will do to the house that is called by my name, and in which you trust, and to the place that I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
The God Who Sees Is Intolerant
Jer 7:23 But this command I gave them: 'Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.' Jer 7:24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.
Jer 7:27 "So you shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you. You shall call to them, but they will not answer you. Jer 7:28 And you shall say to them, 'This is the nation that did not obey the voice of the LORD their God, and did not accept discipline; truth has perished; it is cut off from their lips.
Jer 7:29 "'Cut off your hair and cast it away; raise a lamentation on the bare heights, for the LORD has rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.' Jer 7:30 "For the sons of Judah have done evil in my sight, declares the LORD. They have set their detestable things in the house that is called by my name, to defile it. Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.
Deu 4:24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
One of Joanie's favorite Nouwen's quotes is, “If it is true that God in Jesus Christ is waiting for our response to divine love...."
This doesn't make sense, as most of Nouwen's thought don't. Reading his paper was definitly a wading through fuzzy, confusing, New Age mumbo-jumbo. What SCRIPTURE says though is this:
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ....5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
2 Thes. 2: 13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
Eph. 1: 11 In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him
who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will,
Rom. 8: 30 And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace HIMSELF SANCTIFY you COMPLETELY, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful; HE will surely do it.
I don't see God "waiting" but rather bringing all things in conformity to HIS plan and HIS will. We wait on Him, for Him. HE doesn't wait for us. Scripture doesn't show God as passive, but rather as active (as the verses show above). Even in the crucifixion which Nouwen touches on, God was clearly active, indeed, since Gen. 1:1.
Acts 427 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
I'm so thankful that the true God of Scripture isn't man-centered nor waiting for man to do anything or understand anything. HE is truly in control of His whole creation and is conforming His true children actively by the power of the Word and the Person of the Holy Spirit. To HIS glory and grace.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as HE chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before HIM. In love 5 HE predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which HE has blessed us in the Beloved.
Monday, April 07, 2008
Friday, April 04, 2008
Not Irenic, But Dogmatic on Truth
1Th 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
Contrary to being "irenic", Scripture calls us to be black and white, engaged in spiritual warfare, where we know our enemy and fight to the death for Truth against error.
Below are excerpts taken from John MacArthur's sermon series on 2 Thes. 5:21-22
A Call To Discernment by John MacArthur from 1991:
The Weakening of Doctrinal Clarity and Conviction
There are, I believe, some identifiable causes as to why there is such a terrible lack of discernment in the church today. The main one I'll give you first, the weakening of doctrinal clarity and conviction...the weakening of doctrinal clarity and conviction. That's number one. There were much better times in the history of the church when Christians were encouraged to think biblically, to think theologically, to test everything, to search the scriptures thoroughly, to distinguish carefully its truths. And when discovering what was true, to take a stand and be immovable. Today, those who take firm stands on biblical doctrine are very frequently criticized for splitting hairs and being unloving because the norm today is to gaze lazily at the surface of scriptural truth and then even justify such cavalier shallowness as the desirable generosity of spirit toward those who differ. This is rampant in the church. You sort of just scan Scripture and you don't want to be too dogmatic because if you're dogmatic that's unloving to someone else who has a different opinion. And after all, we certainly don't want to split hairs. Jay Adams writes, "Nowhere is this tendency more apparent than in Christian counseling." He also writes, quote: "Self-styled experts in psychology, sociology and education who hold Ph.Ds in their fields and Sunday-school degrees in Bible pontificate on Christian teaching and life setting themselves up as spokesmen for God."
What he is basically saying...end quote...what he is saying is that the matter of biblical interpretation has been invaded by people who are ill-equipped to do that work. There is a lack of discernment, however, not only in the arena of counseling but there is a lack of doctrine and conviction in the ministry in general, it seems to me. Sharing has replaced preaching.
It is not an accident that the church in the name of unity, love and relationships has moved away from clarity and conviction and doctrine and has begun to favor openness, rejecting narrowness and dogmatism. This has been the prevailing climate in the culture around us. In fact, there's a war on standards. The war on standards is wholesale, isn't it? I mean, if you had a conviction about something it would have to be utterly arbitrary because there isn't any standard.
If I can kind of give you a perspective on all of this, I'm sure Satan knew we Christian evangelicals would not buy the theology of liberalism so he sold us the hermeneutics. What do you mean by that? Satan knew we wouldn't buy their theology so he sold us their principles of interpretation so sooner or later we would arrive at their theology...a kind of Christianity where doctrine and conviction are scorned. You go into the typical town, find the pulpit where the man of God clearly and deeply and profoundly and faithfully articulates doctrine and I'll show you a small group of faithful folk.
The Gospel
The other day I was doing a radio interview, a two-hour interview and the host of the program said to me, this is on a Christian station, the host of the program said to me, "Well how does a person become a Christian?" I said, "First of all to recognize your sinfulness, it is necessary to recognize that I am a sinner and to be willing to turn and repent from my sin and then to recognize that I cannot save myself, that I have no resources within me to redeem myself and cast myself on the mercy of God and to believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son who came into the world and died and paid the price for my sin and rose again for my justification." The host said, "You don't believe that everyone who gets saved has to believe all that, do you?" I said, "YES...yes." That host said to me, "I certainly didn't...didn't deal with any of my sins when I got saved." I said, "How did you get saved?" This was the reply, "I was in drugs, alcohol, living with my boyfriend in Science of Mind for six years and one day I just got Jesus' phone number." I said, "You just got Jesus' phone number?" "I just got Jesus' phone number and I just knew where He was."
What in the world are these people experiencing? When you don't even lay down clear doctrine at the level of the gospel, where you going to go from there? And the cry is, as one man said to me when my book on The Gospel According to Jesus came out, he said, "Your book is divisive. Your book is divisive." You want to know something? He's right. He's right. What to know something else? Doctrine divides. People say, "Oh doctrine divides...doctrine divides." I say, "Amen, preach it, doctrine divides." You know what it does? It confronts error. It separates true from false. It makes judgments. Today's climate, however, of unity in the priority of relationships, that's not tolerable.
You know, I believe...I believe that when evangelicals are willing to depreciate doctrine and when they're willing to set aside unpopular convictions, and when they're willing to stay silent on biblical teaching that offends people in error and sin, opposition will disappear and we could all get together. I believe that. I could start a unity movement...eliminate doctrine, set aside unpopular convictions, don't say anything that offends and we'll all get together. That isn't any surprise. But you know some other things are going to disappear too along with doctrine, like truth, conviction, discernment, righteousness, holiness, discipline, true love and spiritual maturity. They're all gone too and then God will disappear, Ichabod. That price is too high. That will produce a church victimized by hell's deceptions.
What do you think Paul had in mind when he said, "Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth?" It is a shame not to rightly divide the truth from error.
So the main contributor to this lack of discernment has been the weakening of doctrinal clarity and conviction in the name of unity, in the name of mystical experience, and so forth. And as I said, the liberals couldn't sell us their theology so they sold us their hermeneutics, relationships, love, unity, mystical experience and we buy in to that and we'll end up with the same chaos. Everybody talking about heaven ain't going there. And everybody talking about Jesus, Charismatics, neo-orthodox, Roman Catholics and everybody else, don't necessarily know Him.
A failure to be antithetical: be black and white
There's a second contributor, and I at least have to get two of these this morning. And this builds on it, and I want you to follow this. I don't want to get too philosophical for you here. The second is this, a failure to be antithetical, a failure to be antithetical. You say, "What do you mean by that?" I mean to be black and white. In debate, in argument, in theology, we talk about thesis and antithesis, a thesis is some truth that's laid down or some idea that's laid down or some concept that's laid down, and here is the opposing concept...black and white, thesis, antithesis. We have to think antithetically. We live in a culture that some say thinks on what you could call a continuum. In other words, there's no black/white. There's no right/ wrong, true/false, good/bad, there's just this long continuum of relative shades of gray. And everybody sort of is on their on there somewhere. Religion is subjective, spiritual experience is subjective. But listen, biblical preaching is not relative, it is not subjective, it is absolute, it is sharply black and white, it is pointedly antithetical to error. And I'm not trying to defend myself, I'm just dealing with the text here. But I tell you, the criticism that comes back to me all the time is, "You are so strong on doctrine." I don't know what else to be because that is the nature of truth, the truth divides and sets itself against error. We must think antithetically. You hear a thesis, and you must look at an antithesis, the opposite and test it. And it's absolute, truth is absolute, therefore it rubs people the wrong way. It hits them with conviction.
Since worldly thinking pollutes the minds of most church goers, and worldly thinking is this big gray area, nothing is really black and white, nothing is really right and wrong...
How the Bible is antithetical
So we have a culture growing up with continuum kind of thinking, that things are not black and white they're just different shades of gray. Black and white preaching, teaching from Scripture is seen as offensive and fanatical. But in the Bible, antithesis is crucial, discernment is essential. And the Bible just lays things down black and white. I mean, just follow this thought. From the Garden of Eden with its two trees, one allowed and one forbidden, to the eternal destiny of the human being, in heaven or hell, the Bible sets forth two and only two ways, God's way and all other ways. People are said to be saved or lost. They belong to God's people or Satan's people. There is the mount of blessing and the mount of cursing. There is the narrow way and the broad way. There is eternal life and eternal destruction. There are those who are against us and those who are with us. There are those within the Kingdom, those without the Kingdom. There is life and death, truth and falsehood, good and bad, light and darkness, kingdom of God, kingdom of Satan, love, hatred, spiritual wisdom, wisdom of the world. Christ is said to be the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by Him, He is the only name under the sky by which one may be saved. Everything in Scripture is absolute. It is basic to divine revelation.
[Quoting Jay Adams here]In other words, the clean/unclean system was designed to develop in God's people an antithetical mentality. Forbidding the mixing of materials in clothing, for example, doesn't seem to arbitrary after all when considered in the light of the biblical concern to create a antithetical posture toward life. But with pastors and people alike growing up in an environment that stresses continual thinking, antithesis is dulled as more and more people attempt to integrate sociology, psychology, business management principles with the Scripture. Teachers in Christian colleges now consider it one of the key tasks of Christian higher education to seek to integrate the professor's faith with his learning. The key task, you see, is no longer to distinguish God's ways from others, but to find places of agreement."
That's a dangerous thing. The psalmist, listen to this, Psalm 1, "How blessed is the man who doesn't walk in the council of the wicked, nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers, but his delight is in the law of the Lord and in His law he meditates day and night." There's a clear line drawn. They're over here, we're over here. But this kind of continuum thinking has contributed to the climate where discernment is unnecessary, unthinkable and to pursue it is foolish, to pursue it is divisive...are you ready for this?...to pursue it is evil. You're an evil person if you draw lines. You're an evil person if you think in absolutes. You're an evil person if you have convictions. Discernment can only thrive in an environment of doctrinal absolutes.
Listen to Titus 1:9, "Holding fast...there's that same term about holding to what is good...holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, the doctrine, holding fast your doctrine so that you can exhort with sound doctrine and refute those who contradict." We're in the refutation business as well as the affirmation business. When elders were to be selected, they were to have the ability to refute error.
A preoccupation with image and influence as the key to evangelization
The third one, the third cause in this lack of discernment is a preoccupation, listen carefully, a preoccupation with image and influence as the key to evangelization. A preoccupation with image and influence as the key to evangelization.
In other words, you hear this all the time, that if we are going to win the world we have to win their favor. The church has got to become a beloved agency. They've got to like us. So we don't want to fight for truth. We don't want to be too doctrinal. We don't want to offend anybody because image and influence is the key to evangelization.
Now what we're supposed to do is market ourselves so that we become a friendly place. Well, we certainly want to be loving and gracious but one sermon would convince most people that we're not all about just being friendly, we're all about preaching truth. The man who once took his stand for truth and preached it is now asked to take his seat. He's a problem. We don't fight for truth, we don't boldly proclaim truth because we're afraid we might offend an unbeliever. And after all, if anybody is going to get evangelized, it's going to be because they find us a friendly place, a nice place. We want to be popular with the world because we believe that's the key to evangelization. Imagine that. We are in to this whole deal that the image of the church and its non-threatening structure is the key to evangelization. This kind of movement believes that the church will offend unbelievers if it preaches sin or hell or repentance or the cross and it will lose its prestige. So the new trend is for the church to build an image of love and care and being very nice and make everybody comfortable and make everybody happy and entertain the unbeliever and make sure they're never offended and make sure they are very very comfortable. And the bottom line is, if they like us they'll like Jesus. That's the bottom line.
And when the church began to say we're going to have to have influence, and we're going to have to have prestige, and we're going to have to have popularity, we're going to have to be intellectually accepted, and we're going to have to embrace these people and show that we really like them and they're going to have to like us a lot if they're ever going to like our Jesus, it made a major turn...a major turn. Paul the Apostle said we are the scum, we are the dregs, we are the off-scouring of the world. Jesus said they hated Me, they'll hate you. But we've gotten sophisticated. This view believes that our prestige, our influence and our popularity is what gets people to the place where they'll believe the gospel. How absolutely wrong that is. How absolutely wrong. Real spiritual men fight and real spiritual men pay the price for bold clear loving proclamation of the truth. What I'm seeing happen I could call the feminization of the church...so soft.
We are an offense to all in error. We are an offense to all in rejection of the truth. We are an offense to all those who refuse Jesus Christ. We are an offense to all those who live in sin and to mitigate that offense is ridiculous because it is precisely what the Holy Spirit is intending to produce. He wants to convict because conviction and confrontation in conviction leads to salvation. Those offended should be offended.
Monday, March 31, 2008
Ecumenicism, Inclusivism, and Universalism: Thank You Mistress Rome, Rick Warren, and the Emergent Church Movement!
Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries has a new article on the ecumenical Emergent, Samir Selmonovich.
This article made me think of other quotes by famous heretics in professing Christianity and you can see The Merge happening (at the price of Truth and hate for Christ Jesus). Clearly the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) has embraced "New" Ageism and continues to spread it over time, so that on the one hand The Mistress (called this in Trent Council CANON III) says only in her is there salvation (RCC Catechism #845 & #846), but on the other hand she embraces false religions has having good things in them which lead them to the truth (based on works, of course).
I can truly see how the One World religion in the very last days could very well come about. Remember: both Islam and the Mistress Rome have held "convert or die" for centuries, just as the Lawless One will do in the last days.
Mistress Rome and Islam and Other Religions
The Roman Catholic Encyclopedia says: Nostra Aetate:Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions The Second Vatican Council Promulgated by His Holiness Pope Paul VI October 28, 1965 Paul, Bishop, Servant of the Servants of God, together with the Fathers of the Sacred Council. For Everlasting Memory.
"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions [Hinduism, Buddism]. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. The Church therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men."
"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. "
"Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."
RCC Catechism # 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."
RCC Cat. # 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Scripture, however says:
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Catholic churches in the Netherlands should use the name Allah for God to ease tensions between Muslims and Christians, says a Dutch bishop.
Recently Benedict Ratzinger "baptized" a prominent Italian Muslim. Remember Muslims are given permission to lie:
The principle of Al-Takeyya over at Islam Review:
The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:
"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28
According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him. Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
Renounce belief in Allah.
Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah.
Utter insincere oaths.
End quote.
Remember, the Quran says Allah is the greatest of deceivers according to Surah 3:54. Is it any wonder they so easily lie? Their own father is the Father of Lies.
What better way for Islam to gain a hold of the Mistress Rome, than to infiltrate her? Roman Catholicism sees Islam as a threat no doubt, due to Islam's increasing numbers.
Theresa of Calcutta was a unversalist
"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers." - Theresa of Calcutta
"There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ..." Sayings of "Mother" Theresa
Billy Graham Is a Universalist (or at least an Inclusivist):
Billy Graham's inclusion of RCC...this is especially condemning of Graham because he holds John Paul 2 up as a believer, all the while Paul 2 blasphemed the very sacrifice of Christ through the damnable eucharist in Mass, taught the dogmas of the RCC which went directly against grace alone in Christ alone apart from any works. John Paul 2 was deceiving millions world-wide:
Dr. Graham told Larry King he had the privilege of seeing the Pope on several occasions at the Vatican.
"And tonight, I have a very strange feeling of loss. I almost feel as though one of my family members has gone. I loved him very much and had the opportunity of discussing so many things with him. And we wrote each other several times during the years," Dr. Graham said.
KING: You said that he was an Evangelist.
GRAHAM: He was, indeed. He traveled throughout the world to bring his Christian message to the world. And we see tonight the outpouring from the world that he touched. And I think he touched almost everybody in the whole world.
KING: There is no question in your mind that he is with God now?
GRAHAM: Oh, no. There may be a question about my own, but I don't think Cardinal Wojtyla, or the Pope -- I think he's with the Lord, because he believed. He believed in the Cross. That was his focus throughout his ministry, the Cross, no matter if you were talking to him from personal issue or an ethical problem, he felt that there was the answer to all of our problems, the cross and the resurrection. And he was a strong believer.
Television interview of Billy Graham by Robert Schuller. Part 1, an approximately 7-minute-long broadcast in Southern California on Saturday, May 31, 1997. The following is an exact transcript* of an excerpt close to the end of this broadcast. Go here for the transcript.
Schuller:Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
Graham:Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
Schuller:What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
Graham:Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.
(For the video of the above exchange go to Christian Research Network.)
However God says otherwise:
Act 4:11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Fatheer.
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rick Warren is a Universalist:
Berit Kjos has quotes from new ager Alice Bailey and from Rick Warren on his inclusivism as well at Crossroad:
“I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions.” —Rick Warren Aspen Ideas Festival, The Aspen Institute, July 6, 2005, “Discussion: Religion and Leadership,” with David Gergen and Rick Warren
“...You may be Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Baptist or Muslim or Mormon or Jewish or Jain, or you have no religion at all. I’m not interested in your religious background. Because God did not create the universe for us to have religion. He came for us to have a relationship with him.” —Rick Warren United Nations, Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, September 2005
Jimmy Carter is a Universalist
Differences of belief -- even among Muslims, Jews and Christians -- are outweighed by a common commitment ‘to truth …’ [Presiden Jimmy ]Carter said. “A World of Baptists” by Greg Warner, Associated Baptist Press, 8/5/05
New Ager Alice Bailey is a Universalist
This Oneness is found in Theosophy (part of the “Ancient Wisdom”) taught by both Alice Bailey and H. P. Blavatsky. It includes the following widespread principles listed by the Blavatsky Net Foundation:
“Brotherhood is a fact in nature. We are ONE at the highest spiritual component of our nature. We are sparks from one flame.”
“The religions of the world are branches on the tree whose trunk is the one ancient - once universal - wisdom religion. The religions are the tributaries of one great river.”
“Humanity’s potential is infinite and every being has a contribution to make toward a grander world. We are all in it together. We are one.”
This article made me think of other quotes by famous heretics in professing Christianity and you can see The Merge happening (at the price of Truth and hate for Christ Jesus). Clearly the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) has embraced "New" Ageism and continues to spread it over time, so that on the one hand The Mistress (called this in Trent Council CANON III) says only in her is there salvation (RCC Catechism #845 & #846), but on the other hand she embraces false religions has having good things in them which lead them to the truth (based on works, of course).
I can truly see how the One World religion in the very last days could very well come about. Remember: both Islam and the Mistress Rome have held "convert or die" for centuries, just as the Lawless One will do in the last days.
Mistress Rome and Islam and Other Religions
The Roman Catholic Encyclopedia says: Nostra Aetate:Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions The Second Vatican Council Promulgated by His Holiness Pope Paul VI October 28, 1965 Paul, Bishop, Servant of the Servants of God, together with the Fathers of the Sacred Council. For Everlasting Memory.
"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions [Hinduism, Buddism]. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. The Church therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men."
"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. "
"Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."
RCC Catechism # 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."
RCC Cat. # 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Scripture, however says:
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Catholic churches in the Netherlands should use the name Allah for God to ease tensions between Muslims and Christians, says a Dutch bishop.
Recently Benedict Ratzinger "baptized" a prominent Italian Muslim. Remember Muslims are given permission to lie:
The principle of Al-Takeyya over at Islam Review:
The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:
"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28
According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him. Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
Renounce belief in Allah.
Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah.
Utter insincere oaths.
End quote.
Remember, the Quran says Allah is the greatest of deceivers according to Surah 3:54. Is it any wonder they so easily lie? Their own father is the Father of Lies.
What better way for Islam to gain a hold of the Mistress Rome, than to infiltrate her? Roman Catholicism sees Islam as a threat no doubt, due to Islam's increasing numbers.
Theresa of Calcutta was a unversalist
"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers." - Theresa of Calcutta
"There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ..." Sayings of "Mother" Theresa
Billy Graham Is a Universalist (or at least an Inclusivist):
Billy Graham's inclusion of RCC...this is especially condemning of Graham because he holds John Paul 2 up as a believer, all the while Paul 2 blasphemed the very sacrifice of Christ through the damnable eucharist in Mass, taught the dogmas of the RCC which went directly against grace alone in Christ alone apart from any works. John Paul 2 was deceiving millions world-wide:
Dr. Graham told Larry King he had the privilege of seeing the Pope on several occasions at the Vatican.
"And tonight, I have a very strange feeling of loss. I almost feel as though one of my family members has gone. I loved him very much and had the opportunity of discussing so many things with him. And we wrote each other several times during the years," Dr. Graham said.
KING: You said that he was an Evangelist.
GRAHAM: He was, indeed. He traveled throughout the world to bring his Christian message to the world. And we see tonight the outpouring from the world that he touched. And I think he touched almost everybody in the whole world.
KING: There is no question in your mind that he is with God now?
GRAHAM: Oh, no. There may be a question about my own, but I don't think Cardinal Wojtyla, or the Pope -- I think he's with the Lord, because he believed. He believed in the Cross. That was his focus throughout his ministry, the Cross, no matter if you were talking to him from personal issue or an ethical problem, he felt that there was the answer to all of our problems, the cross and the resurrection. And he was a strong believer.
Television interview of Billy Graham by Robert Schuller. Part 1, an approximately 7-minute-long broadcast in Southern California on Saturday, May 31, 1997. The following is an exact transcript* of an excerpt close to the end of this broadcast. Go here for the transcript.
Schuller:Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
Graham:Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
Schuller:What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
Graham:Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.
(For the video of the above exchange go to Christian Research Network.)
However God says otherwise:
Act 4:11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Fatheer.
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rick Warren is a Universalist:
Berit Kjos has quotes from new ager Alice Bailey and from Rick Warren on his inclusivism as well at Crossroad:
“I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions.” —Rick Warren Aspen Ideas Festival, The Aspen Institute, July 6, 2005, “Discussion: Religion and Leadership,” with David Gergen and Rick Warren
“...You may be Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Baptist or Muslim or Mormon or Jewish or Jain, or you have no religion at all. I’m not interested in your religious background. Because God did not create the universe for us to have religion. He came for us to have a relationship with him.” —Rick Warren United Nations, Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, September 2005
Jimmy Carter is a Universalist
Differences of belief -- even among Muslims, Jews and Christians -- are outweighed by a common commitment ‘to truth …’ [Presiden Jimmy ]Carter said. “A World of Baptists” by Greg Warner, Associated Baptist Press, 8/5/05
New Ager Alice Bailey is a Universalist
This Oneness is found in Theosophy (part of the “Ancient Wisdom”) taught by both Alice Bailey and H. P. Blavatsky. It includes the following widespread principles listed by the Blavatsky Net Foundation:
“Brotherhood is a fact in nature. We are ONE at the highest spiritual component of our nature. We are sparks from one flame.”
“The religions of the world are branches on the tree whose trunk is the one ancient - once universal - wisdom religion. The religions are the tributaries of one great river.”
“Humanity’s potential is infinite and every being has a contribution to make toward a grander world. We are all in it together. We are one.”
Friday, March 28, 2008
Tim Keller Joins Rick Warren, Alan Hirsch, Andy Stanley, and Other Emergents at Exponential 08 Conference
Exponential Conference for 2008's speakers: http://www.exponentialconference.org/ Is nothibng but yet another conference to spread the Emergent Church Movement poison. The speakers this year are:
Andy Stanley
Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries says in his article ANDY STANLEY SHARES THE NEW EVANGELICAL MAN-CENTERED MANTRA: Quote:
"Andy Stanley, senior pastor of North Point Ministries in Atlanta, suggested that churches should not focus solely on converting people, as has been the emphasis for generations.
“If we were able to rewrite the script for the reputation of Christianity, I think we would put the emphasis on developing relationships with non-believers, serving them, loving them, and making them feel accepted,” he wrote. “Only then would we earn the right to share the gospel.”
There’s every reason to think that Stanley’s broad-brush pop-art painting plays very well to our notoriously capricious culture but the fact is those of us who hold to proper Biblical theology don’t teach that churches should “focus solely on converting people.” At the same time, that the “converting [of] people...has been the emphasis for generations” really shouldn’t surprise a pastor because it is the secondary mission of local churches. The first being the building up of the Christian to maturity in Christ in order that the Lord may then use them in service as He wills.--Ken Silva
Unquote.
Stanley's 2005 Drive Conference: Pimp My Church Van : found at http://patamo.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html Slice of Laodicea talked about it too, but the video and Conference info from that year has now been removed. Gee, I wonder why.
This is an interesting favorable book review on Stanley (which reveals a lot):
"Andy Stanley's purpose in writing "The Next Generation Leader" was to pass on to emerging leaders lessons learned in his own leadership experiences. The book centers on five leadership concepts. 1. Competence - Focus your time and energy in your areas of strength. 2. Courage - The leader is the one willing to take the lead. 3. Clarity - Be clear even if you are uncertain. 4. Coaching - It takes a coach to bring out your full potential. 5. Character - Character makes you a leader worth following and it provides you with moral authority. In Augustinian terms, Stanley has plundered the Egyptians, by borrowing many concepts from authors of business books and translating them into the vernacular of the minister and the world of the church. He does this with numerous examples of characters in the Bible and from his own personal life and ministry. "The Next Generation Leader" is a short, interesting, and thoughtful book designed for those beginning their leadership journey. It should also provide reminders and challenges to those who have served as leaders for some time. I highly recommend the book for emerging Christian leaders. If you are looking for a more comprehensive study of church leadership from a similar perspective I would recommend "Courageous Leadership" by Bill Hybels or "The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership" by John Maxwell."
Andy Stanley heads up The Catalyst Conference
"The Genesis of Catalyst Catalyst was conceived as a Next Generation Leaders Conference in 1999 by Andy Stanley and Reggie Joiner from North Point Community Church, along with John C. Maxwell, Gabe Lyons and several young leaders from INJOY[Maxwell's group]. Catalyst was created to meet the felt need that existed within the church leader space for a leadership event that was focused on a new generation of church leaders. Everything within this space seemed built around a forty to sixty year old mindset and medium. This team was convinced that this needed to change. "
Emergent Partners with Catalyst: includes Leadership Journal, Leadership Network, fermi project, and Relevant Magazine.
Catalyst Conference 2007 speakers: Notice the Emergent leaders included:
"Catalyst Conference 2007 CD PackageTake your Catalyst Leadership Experience home with you. Share it with friends or listen in your car. Take Andy Stanley, Erwin McManus, Patrick Lencioni, Rick Warren, Craig Groeschel, John Maxwell, Francis Chan, Dave Ramsey, Tim Sanders, Tri Robinson, Gabe Lyons, Dave Kinnaman, Chris Seay, Shane Claiborne and Sunday Adelaja home with you. You will gain incredible leadership insight from this series for years to come."
Catalyst had heretic Rob Bell in July 2006: "Our latest issue features an interview with Rob Bell, the teaching pastor at Mars Hill just outside of Grand Rapids, and the voice of NOOMA. Rob gives a plethora (yes, plethora) of valuable thoughts, ideas and insights on everything from historical Jewish customs to the “call” of a pastor. He truly seems to be at another level in his thinking. One big idea that seemed to be consistent throughout the two part interview was the value and importance of churches being involved in the local community. So we want to know specifically how YOUR church is having an impact on your local community. Share what is happening."
Alan Hirsch: Emergent Church Movement leader and pusher.
Ed Stetzer He's on board with ECM leader Potty Mouth Mark Driscoll. ECM blogger TallSkinnyKiwi loves him (which means even if Stetzer started out sort of critiquing ECM, he's not so opposed to it that they couldn't stand him..and now he's joined the softer side via Driscoll's Resurgence team.)
Steve Andrews : Emergent/Pagan-friendly: His church boasts:
We'll Help You Lose Your Religion.
Or at least your perception of it. Maybe you think going to church means being scolded, subjected to boring sermons, and having your wallet emptied. We don't blame you. In fact, we think one of the biggest barriers to getting to know God has been the church itself.
No Hymns, No Pews, And No Excuses Not To Come.
Instead of an organ and choir, we have a dynamic band playing music that matters to you. Instead of ritual and routine, we have compelling dramas, comedy skits, and exciting multi-media. All designed to present biblical truths and how they apply to your everyday life.
A New Way To Do Church.
Our casual, relaxed atmosphere is a place to investigate Christianity without guilt or pressure. A place to grow spiritually at your own pace. With unconditional love, support, and acceptance during your journey. No strings attached. So come as you are. Go as you want to be. From modern dance to computer animation, we approach church with a wide range of artistic expression and a sense of humor. And we build this freshness and fun into our children's and youth programs, too.
Common Ground for RCers at Andrew's church:
Born and Raised Catholic?
Increase your understanding of Catholic and Protestant beliefs by attending our Pastors & Priests workshop. You'll learn there are many agreements between the two (probably more than you think!) but also take a fair look at the differences. Topics include Purgatory, the Pope, the Virgin Mary, and more! April 19, 2008 9-noon, Clinton Township campus. FREE. Click here to register or call 248-786-0688.
Dave Ferguson: **Update**
Community Christian Church was recently listed in the Top 50 Most Influential Churches according to The Church Report. This alone should be a huge red flag. Dave Ferguson is their senior pastor.
Jeff, an attender of CCC pointed out my misunderstanding regarding Pat Masek being a pastor instead of the assistant to the pastor at CCC. I have corrected my error; an error which was not intentional at all. The doctrine of male leadership would dictate however, as I stated, that no women could be pastors (or leaders of men in church), therefore if a church has a female leading the men, its not a biblical church, which was my point. Here we see Ferguson applaud and look up to women in leadership at his church anyway.
And finally, the other two teachers at the emergent Exponential 08 Conference, none other than Rick Warren and Tim Keller .
It doesn't matter how many people say Keller's not going emergent. The fact is, he's a heretic and he's sharing the stage with several Emergent Church Movement leaders.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Andy Stanley
Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries says in his article ANDY STANLEY SHARES THE NEW EVANGELICAL MAN-CENTERED MANTRA: Quote:
"Andy Stanley, senior pastor of North Point Ministries in Atlanta, suggested that churches should not focus solely on converting people, as has been the emphasis for generations.
“If we were able to rewrite the script for the reputation of Christianity, I think we would put the emphasis on developing relationships with non-believers, serving them, loving them, and making them feel accepted,” he wrote. “Only then would we earn the right to share the gospel.”
There’s every reason to think that Stanley’s broad-brush pop-art painting plays very well to our notoriously capricious culture but the fact is those of us who hold to proper Biblical theology don’t teach that churches should “focus solely on converting people.” At the same time, that the “converting [of] people...has been the emphasis for generations” really shouldn’t surprise a pastor because it is the secondary mission of local churches. The first being the building up of the Christian to maturity in Christ in order that the Lord may then use them in service as He wills.--Ken Silva
Unquote.
Stanley's 2005 Drive Conference: Pimp My Church Van : found at http://patamo.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html Slice of Laodicea talked about it too, but the video and Conference info from that year has now been removed. Gee, I wonder why.
This is an interesting favorable book review on Stanley (which reveals a lot):
"Andy Stanley's purpose in writing "The Next Generation Leader" was to pass on to emerging leaders lessons learned in his own leadership experiences. The book centers on five leadership concepts. 1. Competence - Focus your time and energy in your areas of strength. 2. Courage - The leader is the one willing to take the lead. 3. Clarity - Be clear even if you are uncertain. 4. Coaching - It takes a coach to bring out your full potential. 5. Character - Character makes you a leader worth following and it provides you with moral authority. In Augustinian terms, Stanley has plundered the Egyptians, by borrowing many concepts from authors of business books and translating them into the vernacular of the minister and the world of the church. He does this with numerous examples of characters in the Bible and from his own personal life and ministry. "The Next Generation Leader" is a short, interesting, and thoughtful book designed for those beginning their leadership journey. It should also provide reminders and challenges to those who have served as leaders for some time. I highly recommend the book for emerging Christian leaders. If you are looking for a more comprehensive study of church leadership from a similar perspective I would recommend "Courageous Leadership" by Bill Hybels or "The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership" by John Maxwell."
Andy Stanley heads up The Catalyst Conference
"The Genesis of Catalyst Catalyst was conceived as a Next Generation Leaders Conference in 1999 by Andy Stanley and Reggie Joiner from North Point Community Church, along with John C. Maxwell, Gabe Lyons and several young leaders from INJOY[Maxwell's group]. Catalyst was created to meet the felt need that existed within the church leader space for a leadership event that was focused on a new generation of church leaders. Everything within this space seemed built around a forty to sixty year old mindset and medium. This team was convinced that this needed to change. "
Emergent Partners with Catalyst: includes Leadership Journal, Leadership Network, fermi project, and Relevant Magazine.
Catalyst Conference 2007 speakers: Notice the Emergent leaders included:
"Catalyst Conference 2007 CD PackageTake your Catalyst Leadership Experience home with you. Share it with friends or listen in your car. Take Andy Stanley, Erwin McManus, Patrick Lencioni, Rick Warren, Craig Groeschel, John Maxwell, Francis Chan, Dave Ramsey, Tim Sanders, Tri Robinson, Gabe Lyons, Dave Kinnaman, Chris Seay, Shane Claiborne and Sunday Adelaja home with you. You will gain incredible leadership insight from this series for years to come."
Catalyst had heretic Rob Bell in July 2006: "Our latest issue features an interview with Rob Bell, the teaching pastor at Mars Hill just outside of Grand Rapids, and the voice of NOOMA. Rob gives a plethora (yes, plethora) of valuable thoughts, ideas and insights on everything from historical Jewish customs to the “call” of a pastor. He truly seems to be at another level in his thinking. One big idea that seemed to be consistent throughout the two part interview was the value and importance of churches being involved in the local community. So we want to know specifically how YOUR church is having an impact on your local community. Share what is happening."
Alan Hirsch: Emergent Church Movement leader and pusher.
Ed Stetzer He's on board with ECM leader Potty Mouth Mark Driscoll. ECM blogger TallSkinnyKiwi loves him (which means even if Stetzer started out sort of critiquing ECM, he's not so opposed to it that they couldn't stand him..and now he's joined the softer side via Driscoll's Resurgence team.)
Steve Andrews : Emergent/Pagan-friendly: His church boasts:
We'll Help You Lose Your Religion.
Or at least your perception of it. Maybe you think going to church means being scolded, subjected to boring sermons, and having your wallet emptied. We don't blame you. In fact, we think one of the biggest barriers to getting to know God has been the church itself.
No Hymns, No Pews, And No Excuses Not To Come.
Instead of an organ and choir, we have a dynamic band playing music that matters to you. Instead of ritual and routine, we have compelling dramas, comedy skits, and exciting multi-media. All designed to present biblical truths and how they apply to your everyday life.
A New Way To Do Church.
Our casual, relaxed atmosphere is a place to investigate Christianity without guilt or pressure. A place to grow spiritually at your own pace. With unconditional love, support, and acceptance during your journey. No strings attached. So come as you are. Go as you want to be. From modern dance to computer animation, we approach church with a wide range of artistic expression and a sense of humor. And we build this freshness and fun into our children's and youth programs, too.
Common Ground for RCers at Andrew's church:
Born and Raised Catholic?
Increase your understanding of Catholic and Protestant beliefs by attending our Pastors & Priests workshop. You'll learn there are many agreements between the two (probably more than you think!) but also take a fair look at the differences. Topics include Purgatory, the Pope, the Virgin Mary, and more! April 19, 2008 9-noon, Clinton Township campus. FREE. Click here to register or call 248-786-0688.
Dave Ferguson: **Update**
Community Christian Church was recently listed in the Top 50 Most Influential Churches according to The Church Report. This alone should be a huge red flag. Dave Ferguson is their senior pastor.
Jeff's comment, however, led me to some more research which I find EXTREEMLY troubling and unbiblical.
Ferguson has shared the pulpit with Tim Keller and Mark Driscoll at Innovation and Exponential conferences.
At Dave Ferguson's blog, he writes in glowing words the following on Novermber 15,2009 titled "Two Chefs, A Pub, And An Art Show" (some emphasis, mine, some original):
Quote:
So what do two chefs, a neighborhood pub and an art show all have in common? They are all a part of the ministry of Life Church in New Castle, Australia. This Life Church is not be to be confused with maybe another LifeChurch.tv you have heard about. While this Life Church may have far less people, they make up for it with a tremendous missional drive and desire. During the first four days of our trip to Australia Kevin Wilcock, the Pastor of the church was our host. How do I describe Kevin? The only thing Kevin loves more than a good drink and a party is probably his family, his church and Jesus! Kevin is a wild character; but he has a creative passion for helping people find their way back to God.
They announced they were starting a new service in the local pub called The Kent that would meet on Sunday nights. The poster advertising the "2 beer service" is to your left.
All this took place just during the few days I was there...while holding a leadership conference! They are doing a lot more than that too! They have AA groups, SA groups, NA groups and more. They host jazz concerts with local professional jazz musicians at their church.
I left his church inspired to be more missional, more engaged in the community an more intentional about using all our resources to reach out to the least, lost and lonely and help them find their way back to God!
End quote,
"Church" and "beer" should never go together for a number of reasons. The first of which, we live in a society where getting drunk is an enormous problem (as is drunk driving). There are many drunks too, hence the popularity of AA. And while offering a pub and beer as a MINISTRY, they also offer AA? That's not only unbiblical, its unbelievable and self-contradictory! The other reason is that pastors should not cause the weaker brothers to stumble. Promoting church drinking...CHURCH DRINKING is not love at all; its sin against those Christians who have a struggle or who have had a struggle with alcohol, or who have family members that do. Its also sin against a young Christian who is very impressionable and perhaps has a very sensitive conscience, having just come out of the world. This isn't being others-minded. Its being worldly, fleshly, and frankly, if I may, immature.
In addition, pastors, as well as all Christians, really, are to be examples to the lost and dying world. While drinking on occassion in a private or quiet way is not prohibited by Scripture, promoting it and COMBINING it with the church is flaunting a "freedom" that is diametrically opposed by God's Word. Scripture says we are to be sober-minded (1Thes. 5:7-9; 1Tim. 3:2,11; 2Tim. 4:5;Titus 2:2; 1Peter 1:3;1Peter 4:7). This is especially true of men in leadership.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.
Gal 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Tit 2:7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your
teaching show integrity, dignity, 8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an
opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
Eph 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the
Spirit,
And finally, the other two teachers at the emergent Exponential 08 Conference, none other than Rick Warren and Tim Keller .
It doesn't matter how many people say Keller's not going emergent. The fact is, he's a heretic and he's sharing the stage with several Emergent Church Movement leaders.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Thursday, March 27, 2008
A Characteristic to Avoid When Looking for a Seminary or Church
Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
In Six Characteristics to Look for in a Seminary Michael Patton says:
2. Balanced Theology Department: One of the biggest problems with many seminaries is that they don’t have balance in their presentation of theology. Their agenda is to make you a particular type of theologian. I don’t have too much of a problem with a seminary having a confession or reputation of holding to a particular tradition or sub-tradition (e.g. Reformed, Baptist, Dispensational). The problem arises when their passions for this tradition cause them to skew the theological landscape to their favor. This type of intellectual dishonesty has no place in the training of leaders. The theology department must be confident enough to give people a balanced perspective, representing all relevant views with the clarity of its adherents. By doing so the seminary creates an atmosphere where true learning and true conviction can take place. It also keeps its graduates from becoming unnecessarily divisive over non-essential issues, keeping the focus on the Gospel. The Holy Spirit will create the convictions for his purpose when truth is taught with balance. The seminary needs to trust him enough to do so.
I love that: teaching equally truth AND error equals "balance". Can't be dogmatic--be unsure, uncertain and above all "irenic". Teach the error, offer the poison, and then let the Holy Spirit work? God destroyed the leaders of Israel for teaching error. Are the seminaries any better than them? God condemned error being taught in the New Testament too (1John, Co. 1-2---clearly they were dealing with gnostic hereies and we don't see John or Paul teaching "both sides").
Scripture isn't, in that line of thinking, "balanced" simply because it is ONLY teaching Truth. Its decidedly ONE SIDED. Its BIASED. And if we are students of Scripture, we ought to be also.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Ecc 10:1 Dead flies make the perfumer's ointment give off a stench; so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor.
2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
See that? We are to destroy every arguement and opinion that is against Truth--not wallow in it, not play with it and bounce it around to see how fun it might be, not try it out for size, not consider how it might help the cause of Truth. NO! 1John 2:21 says NO LIE is of the Truth.
2Ti 2:23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
2 Tim. 2: 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
How I wish RTM would listen and believe Scripture, and hear the wisdom of Shindler and Spurgeon who dealt with the same issues over 100 years ago!
From the April 1887 Sword and Trowel: Downgrade Contraversy editor Robert Shindler wrote:
Among the Independents the leaven worked. In the colleges, or academies, as they were then called, the mischief first came to a head. Doctor Doddridge was as sound as he was amiable; but perhaps he was not always judicious; or more probably still, he was too judicious, and not sufficiently bold and decided. As the pastor of an influential church, and as the head of an academy which ranked higher than any other, his amiable disposition permitted him to do what men made of sterner stuff would not have done. He sometimes mingled in a fraternal manner, even exchanging pulpits, with men whose orthodoxy was called in question. It had its effect on many of the younger men, and served to lessen in the estimate of the people generally the growing, divergence of sentiment.
Dr. Joseph Priestley, the great champion of Socinianism among NonconformistsHe says:—"In my time the academy was in a state peculiarly favorable to the serious pursuit of truth, as the students were about equally divided upon every question of much importance, such as liberty, necessity, the sleep of the soul, and all the articles of theological orthodoxy and heresy; in consequence of which, all these topics were the subject of continual discussion. Our tutors, also, were of different opinions, Dr. Ashworth taking the orthodox side of every question, and Mr. Clark, the sub-tutor, that of heresy, though always with the greatest modesty. Both of our tutors being young, at least as tutors, and some of the senior students excelling more than they could pretend to do in several branches of study, they indulged us in the greatest freedoms. The general plan of our studies, which may be seen in Dr. Doddridge's published lectures, was exceedingly favorable to free enquiry, as we were referred to authors on both sides of every question.
In this situation I saw reason to embrace what is generally called the heterodox side of every question."But in too many cases sceptical daring seems to have taken the place of evangelical zeal, and the husks of theological speculations are preferred to the wholesome bread of gospel truth. With some the endeavor seems to be not how steadily and faithfully they can walk in the truth, but how far they can get from it. To them divine truth is like a lion or a tiger, and they give it "a wide berth." Our counsel is—Do not go too near the precipice; you may slip or fall over. Keep where the ground is firm; do not venture on the rotten ice.
So we venture to say to any venturesome spirit who wants to follow the Will-with- a-wisp of modern thought, "Don't try it; there are dangerous bogs near, where you may soon lose yourself and all that is dear to you." If anyone wishes to know where the tadpole of Darwinism was hatched, we could point him to the pew of the old chapel in High Street, Shrewsbury, where Mr. Darwin, his father, and we believe his father's father, received their religious training. The chapel was built for Mr. Talents, an ejected minister; but for very many years full-blown Socinianism has been taught there, as also in the old chapel at Chester, where Matthew Henry used to minister, and where a copy of his Commentary, of the original edition, is kept for public use, the only witness, we fear, to the truths he taught there.
The first step astray is a want of adequate faith in the divine inspiration of the sacred Scriptures. All the while a man bows to the authority of God's Word, he will not entertain any sentiment contrary to its teaching. "To the law and to the testimony," is his appeal concerning every doctrine. He esteems that holy Book, concerning all things, to be right, and therefore he hates every false way. But let a man question, or entertain low views of the inspiration and authority of the Bible, and he is without chart to guide him, and without anchor to hold him. But when, on the other hand, reason has been exalted above revelation, and made the exponent of revelation, all kinds of errors and mischiefs have been the result.
... human reason is exalted to a higher office, and what is not comprehensible by its grasp, is not readily received. The mind of the Socinian feels still less veneration for the Word of God; for, according to his sentiments, some parts of it are not inspired; mistakes occur in the reasoning of the apostles; not a few passages are unauthentic, and what remains is interpreted with a latitude as to the expressions and language of Scripture, which would not be tolerated in expounding the sense of any other writer." ("History of Dissenters," by Bogue and Bennet.)They run in 'the course of this world,' follow every fashionable folly, and family and personal godliness seems in general to be lost among them. There is scarcely any appearance of life and zeal in the cause of religion, which demands and deserves the greatest.
When the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the infallible, inerrant, technically precise Word of God, people will see the fruit:
Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.
2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
Sadly those in Reclaiming the Mind have studied themselves away from the Truth and promote the error they "studied" so they could be "balanced". Pity.
In Six Characteristics to Look for in a Seminary Michael Patton says:
2. Balanced Theology Department: One of the biggest problems with many seminaries is that they don’t have balance in their presentation of theology. Their agenda is to make you a particular type of theologian. I don’t have too much of a problem with a seminary having a confession or reputation of holding to a particular tradition or sub-tradition (e.g. Reformed, Baptist, Dispensational). The problem arises when their passions for this tradition cause them to skew the theological landscape to their favor. This type of intellectual dishonesty has no place in the training of leaders. The theology department must be confident enough to give people a balanced perspective, representing all relevant views with the clarity of its adherents. By doing so the seminary creates an atmosphere where true learning and true conviction can take place. It also keeps its graduates from becoming unnecessarily divisive over non-essential issues, keeping the focus on the Gospel. The Holy Spirit will create the convictions for his purpose when truth is taught with balance. The seminary needs to trust him enough to do so.
I love that: teaching equally truth AND error equals "balance". Can't be dogmatic--be unsure, uncertain and above all "irenic". Teach the error, offer the poison, and then let the Holy Spirit work? God destroyed the leaders of Israel for teaching error. Are the seminaries any better than them? God condemned error being taught in the New Testament too (1John, Co. 1-2---clearly they were dealing with gnostic hereies and we don't see John or Paul teaching "both sides").
Scripture isn't, in that line of thinking, "balanced" simply because it is ONLY teaching Truth. Its decidedly ONE SIDED. Its BIASED. And if we are students of Scripture, we ought to be also.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Ecc 10:1 Dead flies make the perfumer's ointment give off a stench; so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor.
2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
See that? We are to destroy every arguement and opinion that is against Truth--not wallow in it, not play with it and bounce it around to see how fun it might be, not try it out for size, not consider how it might help the cause of Truth. NO! 1John 2:21 says NO LIE is of the Truth.
2Ti 2:23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
2 Tim. 2: 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
Patton and his crew would have you think its ok to indulge in the error and that there is benefit in it. This is contrary to the above passage of Scripture. Indulging in error will promote it and cause many to wander from the Truth--as these men and women exemplify. Moreover, the necessary fruit of handling and considering error is ungodliness.
1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;How I wish RTM would listen and believe Scripture, and hear the wisdom of Shindler and Spurgeon who dealt with the same issues over 100 years ago!
From the April 1887 Sword and Trowel: Downgrade Contraversy editor Robert Shindler wrote:
Among the Independents the leaven worked. In the colleges, or academies, as they were then called, the mischief first came to a head. Doctor Doddridge was as sound as he was amiable; but perhaps he was not always judicious; or more probably still, he was too judicious, and not sufficiently bold and decided. As the pastor of an influential church, and as the head of an academy which ranked higher than any other, his amiable disposition permitted him to do what men made of sterner stuff would not have done. He sometimes mingled in a fraternal manner, even exchanging pulpits, with men whose orthodoxy was called in question. It had its effect on many of the younger men, and served to lessen in the estimate of the people generally the growing, divergence of sentiment.
Dr. Joseph Priestley, the great champion of Socinianism among NonconformistsHe says:—"In my time the academy was in a state peculiarly favorable to the serious pursuit of truth, as the students were about equally divided upon every question of much importance, such as liberty, necessity, the sleep of the soul, and all the articles of theological orthodoxy and heresy; in consequence of which, all these topics were the subject of continual discussion. Our tutors, also, were of different opinions, Dr. Ashworth taking the orthodox side of every question, and Mr. Clark, the sub-tutor, that of heresy, though always with the greatest modesty. Both of our tutors being young, at least as tutors, and some of the senior students excelling more than they could pretend to do in several branches of study, they indulged us in the greatest freedoms. The general plan of our studies, which may be seen in Dr. Doddridge's published lectures, was exceedingly favorable to free enquiry, as we were referred to authors on both sides of every question.
In this situation I saw reason to embrace what is generally called the heterodox side of every question."But in too many cases sceptical daring seems to have taken the place of evangelical zeal, and the husks of theological speculations are preferred to the wholesome bread of gospel truth. With some the endeavor seems to be not how steadily and faithfully they can walk in the truth, but how far they can get from it. To them divine truth is like a lion or a tiger, and they give it "a wide berth." Our counsel is—Do not go too near the precipice; you may slip or fall over. Keep where the ground is firm; do not venture on the rotten ice.
So we venture to say to any venturesome spirit who wants to follow the Will-with- a-wisp of modern thought, "Don't try it; there are dangerous bogs near, where you may soon lose yourself and all that is dear to you." If anyone wishes to know where the tadpole of Darwinism was hatched, we could point him to the pew of the old chapel in High Street, Shrewsbury, where Mr. Darwin, his father, and we believe his father's father, received their religious training. The chapel was built for Mr. Talents, an ejected minister; but for very many years full-blown Socinianism has been taught there, as also in the old chapel at Chester, where Matthew Henry used to minister, and where a copy of his Commentary, of the original edition, is kept for public use, the only witness, we fear, to the truths he taught there.
The first step astray is a want of adequate faith in the divine inspiration of the sacred Scriptures. All the while a man bows to the authority of God's Word, he will not entertain any sentiment contrary to its teaching. "To the law and to the testimony," is his appeal concerning every doctrine. He esteems that holy Book, concerning all things, to be right, and therefore he hates every false way. But let a man question, or entertain low views of the inspiration and authority of the Bible, and he is without chart to guide him, and without anchor to hold him. But when, on the other hand, reason has been exalted above revelation, and made the exponent of revelation, all kinds of errors and mischiefs have been the result.
... human reason is exalted to a higher office, and what is not comprehensible by its grasp, is not readily received. The mind of the Socinian feels still less veneration for the Word of God; for, according to his sentiments, some parts of it are not inspired; mistakes occur in the reasoning of the apostles; not a few passages are unauthentic, and what remains is interpreted with a latitude as to the expressions and language of Scripture, which would not be tolerated in expounding the sense of any other writer." ("History of Dissenters," by Bogue and Bennet.)They run in 'the course of this world,' follow every fashionable folly, and family and personal godliness seems in general to be lost among them. There is scarcely any appearance of life and zeal in the cause of religion, which demands and deserves the greatest.
When the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the infallible, inerrant, technically precise Word of God, people will see the fruit:
Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.
2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
Sadly those in Reclaiming the Mind have studied themselves away from the Truth and promote the error they "studied" so they could be "balanced". Pity.
Wednesday, March 26, 2008
Mark Driscoll's "Vintage Jesus" isn't the True Jesus
I read a review of Mark Irreverent Potty Mouth Driscoll's latest book, "Vintage Jesus" which hardly seems to reflect anything close to the True Jesus and thus which doesn't elicit any fear in Driscoll. Erick Raymond's article is posted at Camp On This. I have to say that it seems to parallel the same obnoxious twisting of Mary that Emergent Scot McKnight does in his book "The Real Mary".
Sadly too many Christians were/are hoping for improvment with Driscoll, but what they don't realize is that the man is speaking things that flow from his heart. He won't get better until he has a new heart of flesh. Why "Reformers" don't get this (when they DO get it with others) is weird.
Erick Raymond lists some of the more offensive Driscoll quotes in his review:
For example, Driscoll, in his run through The Gospel According to Mark, describes Jesus as a guy who,
“[tells] a leper to shut-up”
“does the equivalent of breaking into a church on a Sunday morning to make a sandwich with the communion bread..”
“needs Paxil”
“needs sensitivity training”
“has his guys take a donkey without asking like some kleptomaniac donkeylifter”
“[Is] an obvious workaholic who needed to start drinking decaf and listening to taped sounds of running water while doing aromatherapy so he could learn to relax.”
Sounds more like Kenneth Copeland's view of God--the irreverence is alarming. Criticism is reserved for Copeland who says that Jesus had taken on a sin nature and be born again in hell, but what Driscoll says is just as atrocious. Guess Driscoll gets a free pass because he mouths "TULIP" or "Reformed"? This is absolutely HORRIBLE!
More quotes from Driscoll:
“Jesus’ mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was mocked for claiming she conceived via the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted a crazy story to cover the ‘fact’ she was knocking boots with some guy in the backseat of a car at the prom.” (p.11)
“Jesus’ humor was often biting and harsh, particularly when directed at the Pharisees. For example, he called them a bag of snakes, said that their moms shagged the Devil, and mocked them for tithing out of their spice racks.” (pp. 40-41)
“Joining them later at the party at Matthew’s house was nothing short of a very bad hip-hop video, complete with women in clear heels, dudes with their pants around their ankles and handguns in their underwear strap, lots of gold teeth, bling, spinners on camels, cheap liquor, and grinding to really loud music with a lot of bass. When word got out to the religious folks, they were perplexed as to how Jesus could roll with such a jacked-up posse. Jesus’ answer was purely priestly. Jesus said that they were sick and needed mercy.” (p.77)
“Some Catholic theologians taught that Jesus was not born in the normal fashion through Mary’s birth canal. Rather, they say he was born via something much like a miraculous C-section, as if Mary were some Messiah-in-the-box, and Joseph cranked her arm until the Messiah popped out of her gut.” (p. 93)
"On the cross as our substitute, Jesus was made to be the worst of what we are. This does not mean that Jesus ever sinned. Rather, it means that he was made sin. As a result, in that moment when Jesus cried out that he had been forsaken by God the Father, Jesus became the most ugly, wicked, defiled, evil, corrupt, rebellious, and hideous thing in all creation. In that moment, Jesus became a homosexual, alcoholic, thief, glutton, addict, pervert, adulterer, coveter, idol worshiper, whore, pedophile, self-righteous religious prig—and whatever else we are.” (p. 114)
Steve Camp wrote on Mark Driscoll and his blasphemy.
Driscoll also says in his book: "Jesus was born in a dumpy, rural, hick town, not unlike those today where guys change their own oil, think pro wrestling is real, find women who chew tobacco sexy, and eat a lot of Hot Pockets with their uncle-daddy. Jesus' mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was often mocked for claiming she conceived via the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted the crazy story to cover the fact she was knocking boots with some guy in the backseat of a car at the prom."
Yet this is whom John Piper endorses and defends for repeatedly sharing the pulpit with him.
Scripture says we are to fear HIM:
Ecc 12:13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecc 12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
Psa 36:1 Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes.
Lighthouseresearchtrails : "Those who Driscoll admires were some of the greatest enemies of Christian doctrine of the 20th century." Driscoll has continued to promote the Emergent Church Movement garbage. Lighthouseresearchtrails has some VERY good information on Driscoll.
More horrific quotes by Driscoll here.
Driscoll is poison to the Body of Christ and John Piper is helping spread his poison willingly, as are other reformers (you know, those who say well, yes Driscoll's langauge isn't all that great, but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water....after all, he's one of US!" types). Yet these reformers are the same types who rip on Benny Hinn, but there's no difference, except maybe, in subtlety.
Driscoll has NO FEAR OF GOD in his eyes. NONE. He violates Scripture in continuing in course words and unfit language. He destroys the HOLINESS and FEAR for Christ Jesus. There is nothing worth taking from Driscoll's pig stye to sift through and find truth. Go to Scripture and find the pristine reverence for Christ, held up above all people and all of Creation, set apart as Master, Righteous One, and without spot or blemish, never acting like the pigs, dogs, and vipers of His day.
Scripture says of men like Driscoll:
Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
Rom 3:13 "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips."
Rom 3:14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
Rom 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known."
Rom 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Jud 1:10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. Jud 1:11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.
Jud 1:12 These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Jud 1:16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.
Jud 1:18 They said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions." Jud 1:19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
Sadly too many Christians were/are hoping for improvment with Driscoll, but what they don't realize is that the man is speaking things that flow from his heart. He won't get better until he has a new heart of flesh. Why "Reformers" don't get this (when they DO get it with others) is weird.
Erick Raymond lists some of the more offensive Driscoll quotes in his review:
For example, Driscoll, in his run through The Gospel According to Mark, describes Jesus as a guy who,
“[tells] a leper to shut-up”
“does the equivalent of breaking into a church on a Sunday morning to make a sandwich with the communion bread..”
“needs Paxil”
“needs sensitivity training”
“has his guys take a donkey without asking like some kleptomaniac donkeylifter”
“[Is] an obvious workaholic who needed to start drinking decaf and listening to taped sounds of running water while doing aromatherapy so he could learn to relax.”
Sounds more like Kenneth Copeland's view of God--the irreverence is alarming. Criticism is reserved for Copeland who says that Jesus had taken on a sin nature and be born again in hell, but what Driscoll says is just as atrocious. Guess Driscoll gets a free pass because he mouths "TULIP" or "Reformed"? This is absolutely HORRIBLE!
More quotes from Driscoll:
“Jesus’ mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was mocked for claiming she conceived via the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted a crazy story to cover the ‘fact’ she was knocking boots with some guy in the backseat of a car at the prom.” (p.11)
“Jesus’ humor was often biting and harsh, particularly when directed at the Pharisees. For example, he called them a bag of snakes, said that their moms shagged the Devil, and mocked them for tithing out of their spice racks.” (pp. 40-41)
“Joining them later at the party at Matthew’s house was nothing short of a very bad hip-hop video, complete with women in clear heels, dudes with their pants around their ankles and handguns in their underwear strap, lots of gold teeth, bling, spinners on camels, cheap liquor, and grinding to really loud music with a lot of bass. When word got out to the religious folks, they were perplexed as to how Jesus could roll with such a jacked-up posse. Jesus’ answer was purely priestly. Jesus said that they were sick and needed mercy.” (p.77)
“Some Catholic theologians taught that Jesus was not born in the normal fashion through Mary’s birth canal. Rather, they say he was born via something much like a miraculous C-section, as if Mary were some Messiah-in-the-box, and Joseph cranked her arm until the Messiah popped out of her gut.” (p. 93)
"On the cross as our substitute, Jesus was made to be the worst of what we are. This does not mean that Jesus ever sinned. Rather, it means that he was made sin. As a result, in that moment when Jesus cried out that he had been forsaken by God the Father, Jesus became the most ugly, wicked, defiled, evil, corrupt, rebellious, and hideous thing in all creation. In that moment, Jesus became a homosexual, alcoholic, thief, glutton, addict, pervert, adulterer, coveter, idol worshiper, whore, pedophile, self-righteous religious prig—and whatever else we are.” (p. 114)
Steve Camp wrote on Mark Driscoll and his blasphemy.
Driscoll also says in his book: "Jesus was born in a dumpy, rural, hick town, not unlike those today where guys change their own oil, think pro wrestling is real, find women who chew tobacco sexy, and eat a lot of Hot Pockets with their uncle-daddy. Jesus' mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was often mocked for claiming she conceived via the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted the crazy story to cover the fact she was knocking boots with some guy in the backseat of a car at the prom."
Yet this is whom John Piper endorses and defends for repeatedly sharing the pulpit with him.
Scripture says we are to fear HIM:
Ecc 12:13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecc 12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
Psa 36:1 Transgression speaks to the wicked deep in his heart; there is no fear of God before his eyes.
Lighthouseresearchtrails : "Those who Driscoll admires were some of the greatest enemies of Christian doctrine of the 20th century." Driscoll has continued to promote the Emergent Church Movement garbage. Lighthouseresearchtrails has some VERY good information on Driscoll.
More horrific quotes by Driscoll here.
Driscoll is poison to the Body of Christ and John Piper is helping spread his poison willingly, as are other reformers (you know, those who say well, yes Driscoll's langauge isn't all that great, but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water....after all, he's one of US!" types). Yet these reformers are the same types who rip on Benny Hinn, but there's no difference, except maybe, in subtlety.
Driscoll has NO FEAR OF GOD in his eyes. NONE. He violates Scripture in continuing in course words and unfit language. He destroys the HOLINESS and FEAR for Christ Jesus. There is nothing worth taking from Driscoll's pig stye to sift through and find truth. Go to Scripture and find the pristine reverence for Christ, held up above all people and all of Creation, set apart as Master, Righteous One, and without spot or blemish, never acting like the pigs, dogs, and vipers of His day.
Scripture says of men like Driscoll:
Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
Rom 3:13 "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips."
Rom 3:14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
Rom 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known."
Rom 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Jud 1:10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. Jud 1:11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.
Jud 1:12 These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Jud 1:16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.
Jud 1:18 They said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions." Jud 1:19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
Monday, March 24, 2008
Reclaiming the Mind: Mark Driscoll, Scot McKnight, and Dan Kimball: Emergent Poison Pushed
Reclaiming the Mind’s Converse With A Scholar offers Mark Driscoll (April 24, 2008), Scot McKnight (April 3, 2008 ), and Dan Kimball(March 20,2008) for the sheep to listen to. However, what they offer is nothing but Emergent Church garbage. Take a look here at Lighthouse Research Trails’ March 2007 Newsletter :
Quote:
Some say that some emerging church leaders (like Dan Kimball and Mark Driscoll) are not part of the Emergent movement and that the terms Emergent and emerging church mean two different things. However, according to one of the strongest catalysts for the emerging church movement, Zondervan Publishing, Kimball and Driscoll are indeed part of the "Emergent movement." Zondervan describes its 2007 book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches as: "Five of the emergent movement's most prominent leaders debate their views on Scripture, Christ, atonement, and more." Those five are Dan Kimball, Mark Driscoll, John Burke, Karen Ward and Doug Pagitt. Be that as it may, emergent and emerging are just words, but those who adhere to either of the concepts are going in the same direction, and as we stated in our article, Emerging Church Confusion: What Does it Really Mean?, emergent leaders are feeding the emerging church movement and making it what it is and will become.
Incidentally, in Zondervan's book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches, Robert Webber, the editor of the book, says that "traditionalists have been out of touch with cultural changes, and the contemporaries who have become so thoroughly enmeshed with and catechized by culture are out of touch with the traditions. This reality has created what seems to be an unalterable division between devoted Christians" (p. 213). This is a scary statement, and here is why: In Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus But Not the Church, he makes it clear that "traditionalists" are those who take the Bible literally. Webber says those kind of Christians are out of touch with today's culture (in other words they don't wear hip looking eye glasses or wear slicked back hair or drink beer at the pubs with gays, or cuss in public). That makes them abnormal and oblivious to the world around them according to Kimball. Webber would like to see the two types of Christians (those literalists who believe everything the Bible says and those emergents) come together. He states: "What are we to do? Should we encourage the split? Or is there a new direction for us all? ... What will it take to create an Ancient-Future faith (Webber's name for the emerging church)?" (p. 213) He goes on and tells the solution: "First, an Ancient-Future faith calls us to return to our ancient roots in the first centuries of the church." He explains that these "ancient roots" include "spiritual formation" (contemplative mysticism) and he says that while there have been reforms throughout history (such as the Reformation), we do not need to be divided over them (he includes Catholicism) and says we are "connected to the same family. This ecumenical conviction is central to an Ancient-Future Vision" (p. 214).
In emerging church leader, Scot McKnight's book, The Real Mary: Why Evangelical Christians Can Embrace the Mother of Jesus, McKnight says that Protestant Christians are the only Christians who do not honor Mary. He recommends that Protestant churches all practice an "Honor Mary Day" (p. 144), saying she "leads us to a Jesus who brings redemption ... To listen to Mary is to hear the message of Jesus' death and resurrection as a mega-event whereby God established a new kind of power, a new kind of family, and a new kind of kingdom" (p. 145). McKnight describes this great event as a time when the world will come together and worship Mary.
Today, Christendom has become filled with leaders who have lost their way. If Christian leaders like David Jeremiah and Josh McDowell, who are now promoting emerging leaders, continue in their present direction, they will be responsible for countless lives losing their chances for hearing the true gospel, and these leaders will be helping pave the way for an interspiritual, mystical, apostate religion.
Unquote.
Dan Kimball’s push for ecumenical paganism:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/dankimball.htm
and
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/stevemuseemerging.pdf
More from Lighthouse: 2008 National Pastors Convention
Quote:
Pastors and church leaders who are planning on attending the 2008 National Pastors Convention, which will be presented by Zondervan Publishing and InterVarsity Press this coming February, should think twice about going. After travel expenses, ticket, lodging and food, the cost for the event for one pastor could easily run over a thousand dollars. In light of the speakers who will be teaching, and other events being offered, this may prove to be an unfruitful way to spend so much money, and may even be spiritually detrimental.
Speakers at this year's event include some of the most blatant proponents of contemplative spirituality and the emerging church, which in many cases also means having a propensity toward Catholic mysticism and interspirituality. Some of these speakers include: Ruth Haley Barton, Tony Jones, Erwin McManus, John Ortberg, J.P. Moreland, Calvin Miller, Scot McKnight, and Dan Kimball. Chuck Colson, co-author of the ecumenical Evangelicals & Catholics Together document will also be speaking. Emerging church favorite Phyllis Tickle (who once called Brian McLaren the next Luther) will be a speaker at the event as well. 1 A number of other speakers also fall into the contemplative/emerging camp.
A number of other speakers also fall into the contemplative/emerging camp. Extra activities offered at the convention, in addition to seminars by the speakers, include "Christian Yoga" presented by Shelly Pagitt (wife of emerging church leader Doug Pagitt), New Age sympathizer Rob Bell's Nooma films, opportunities to be instructed by "spiritual directors" (those who teach contemplative spirituality), and prayer Labyrinths.
Critical concern courses will offer "Practicing the Presence of Jesus: A Spiritual Retreat" by Mark Yaconelli, who once revealed to Lighthouse Trails that he taught mantra meditation in his classes. Popular teachers Henry Cloud and John Townsend (CCN) have found a teaching place at the convention too in a critical concerns course called "Revolutionizing Group Life in the Church." Having these two mainstream speakers will give much credibility to the event in the eyes of many. Dan Kimball will teach a course named after his book They Like Jesus but not the Church (see review).
Unquote.
**UPDATE***
The Submerging Influence, a "community blog" of Reclaiming the Mind, links some of the most liberal "Christian" websites: iMonk (Michael Spence), Jesus Creed (Scot McKnight) and Christianity Today. This is no surprise. In fact it just confirms the lack of love for purity in doctrine and love of Truth, God, and His children. Offering poisoned water doesn't glorify Him.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Quote:
Some say that some emerging church leaders (like Dan Kimball and Mark Driscoll) are not part of the Emergent movement and that the terms Emergent and emerging church mean two different things. However, according to one of the strongest catalysts for the emerging church movement, Zondervan Publishing, Kimball and Driscoll are indeed part of the "Emergent movement." Zondervan describes its 2007 book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches as: "Five of the emergent movement's most prominent leaders debate their views on Scripture, Christ, atonement, and more." Those five are Dan Kimball, Mark Driscoll, John Burke, Karen Ward and Doug Pagitt. Be that as it may, emergent and emerging are just words, but those who adhere to either of the concepts are going in the same direction, and as we stated in our article, Emerging Church Confusion: What Does it Really Mean?, emergent leaders are feeding the emerging church movement and making it what it is and will become.
Incidentally, in Zondervan's book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches, Robert Webber, the editor of the book, says that "traditionalists have been out of touch with cultural changes, and the contemporaries who have become so thoroughly enmeshed with and catechized by culture are out of touch with the traditions. This reality has created what seems to be an unalterable division between devoted Christians" (p. 213). This is a scary statement, and here is why: In Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus But Not the Church, he makes it clear that "traditionalists" are those who take the Bible literally. Webber says those kind of Christians are out of touch with today's culture (in other words they don't wear hip looking eye glasses or wear slicked back hair or drink beer at the pubs with gays, or cuss in public). That makes them abnormal and oblivious to the world around them according to Kimball. Webber would like to see the two types of Christians (those literalists who believe everything the Bible says and those emergents) come together. He states: "What are we to do? Should we encourage the split? Or is there a new direction for us all? ... What will it take to create an Ancient-Future faith (Webber's name for the emerging church)?" (p. 213) He goes on and tells the solution: "First, an Ancient-Future faith calls us to return to our ancient roots in the first centuries of the church." He explains that these "ancient roots" include "spiritual formation" (contemplative mysticism) and he says that while there have been reforms throughout history (such as the Reformation), we do not need to be divided over them (he includes Catholicism) and says we are "connected to the same family. This ecumenical conviction is central to an Ancient-Future Vision" (p. 214).
In emerging church leader, Scot McKnight's book, The Real Mary: Why Evangelical Christians Can Embrace the Mother of Jesus, McKnight says that Protestant Christians are the only Christians who do not honor Mary. He recommends that Protestant churches all practice an "Honor Mary Day" (p. 144), saying she "leads us to a Jesus who brings redemption ... To listen to Mary is to hear the message of Jesus' death and resurrection as a mega-event whereby God established a new kind of power, a new kind of family, and a new kind of kingdom" (p. 145). McKnight describes this great event as a time when the world will come together and worship Mary.
Today, Christendom has become filled with leaders who have lost their way. If Christian leaders like David Jeremiah and Josh McDowell, who are now promoting emerging leaders, continue in their present direction, they will be responsible for countless lives losing their chances for hearing the true gospel, and these leaders will be helping pave the way for an interspiritual, mystical, apostate religion.
Unquote.
Dan Kimball’s push for ecumenical paganism:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/dankimball.htm
and
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/stevemuseemerging.pdf
More from Lighthouse: 2008 National Pastors Convention
Quote:
Pastors and church leaders who are planning on attending the 2008 National Pastors Convention, which will be presented by Zondervan Publishing and InterVarsity Press this coming February, should think twice about going. After travel expenses, ticket, lodging and food, the cost for the event for one pastor could easily run over a thousand dollars. In light of the speakers who will be teaching, and other events being offered, this may prove to be an unfruitful way to spend so much money, and may even be spiritually detrimental.
Speakers at this year's event include some of the most blatant proponents of contemplative spirituality and the emerging church, which in many cases also means having a propensity toward Catholic mysticism and interspirituality. Some of these speakers include: Ruth Haley Barton, Tony Jones, Erwin McManus, John Ortberg, J.P. Moreland, Calvin Miller, Scot McKnight, and Dan Kimball. Chuck Colson, co-author of the ecumenical Evangelicals & Catholics Together document will also be speaking. Emerging church favorite Phyllis Tickle (who once called Brian McLaren the next Luther) will be a speaker at the event as well. 1 A number of other speakers also fall into the contemplative/emerging camp.
A number of other speakers also fall into the contemplative/emerging camp. Extra activities offered at the convention, in addition to seminars by the speakers, include "Christian Yoga" presented by Shelly Pagitt (wife of emerging church leader Doug Pagitt), New Age sympathizer Rob Bell's Nooma films, opportunities to be instructed by "spiritual directors" (those who teach contemplative spirituality), and prayer Labyrinths.
Critical concern courses will offer "Practicing the Presence of Jesus: A Spiritual Retreat" by Mark Yaconelli, who once revealed to Lighthouse Trails that he taught mantra meditation in his classes. Popular teachers Henry Cloud and John Townsend (CCN) have found a teaching place at the convention too in a critical concerns course called "Revolutionizing Group Life in the Church." Having these two mainstream speakers will give much credibility to the event in the eyes of many. Dan Kimball will teach a course named after his book They Like Jesus but not the Church (see review).
Unquote.
**UPDATE***
The Submerging Influence, a "community blog" of Reclaiming the Mind, links some of the most liberal "Christian" websites: iMonk (Michael Spence), Jesus Creed (Scot McKnight) and Christianity Today. This is no surprise. In fact it just confirms the lack of love for purity in doctrine and love of Truth, God, and His children. Offering poisoned water doesn't glorify Him.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Saturday, March 15, 2008
Being Dogmatic in A Post Modern World: Do Muslims, Mormons, JW's, Jews, RCers, Open Theists, Universalists Worship the God of Scripture?
In this day and age of Post Modernism where Truth is fuzzy and unknowable, and everyone has to make qualifying statements on "dogmatic" claims, I'd like to make one thing perfectly clear.
In answer to this question:
Do the pagans (Muslims, Jews, LDS, JW’s, Roman Catholics, Open Theists, Universalists) worship, praise, honor, have the Triune God of Scripture?
The answer is easily, clearly, and biblically answered in one word:
NO.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
Why then, if Scripture is crystal clear, do seminary professors have to write seven pages to answer the simple question above?
Because in their mind, they DO have the same God, if "only in part".
Unbelievable! Anti-Scriptural.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?
Isa 46:5 "To whom will you liken me and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be alike?
So why do these seminarian professors liken the demon Allah to God and God to the demon Allah? Or compare the false god of the Open Theist to the Omnicient God of Scripture?God says DO NOT DO IT.
Case closed. In less than 7 pages.
In answer to this question:
Do the pagans (Muslims, Jews, LDS, JW’s, Roman Catholics, Open Theists, Universalists) worship, praise, honor, have the Triune God of Scripture?
The answer is easily, clearly, and biblically answered in one word:
NO.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
Why then, if Scripture is crystal clear, do seminary professors have to write seven pages to answer the simple question above?
Because in their mind, they DO have the same God, if "only in part".
Unbelievable! Anti-Scriptural.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?
Isa 46:5 "To whom will you liken me and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be alike?
So why do these seminarian professors liken the demon Allah to God and God to the demon Allah? Or compare the false god of the Open Theist to the Omnicient God of Scripture?God says DO NOT DO IT.
Case closed. In less than 7 pages.
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