Lighthouse Trails is very disappointed in the men who are participating at the 2009 "Entrusted with the Gospel" National Conference, knowing that Mark Driscoll will be one of the featured speakers.
While Driscoll's crass speech about sex may perhaps not bother these men, his manner is degrading to women and children--and godly men are required of the Lord to defend and protect women and children according to Scripture.
Contact: Cathy Mickels, 360-387-8150 SEATTLE, Jan. 14 /Christian Newswire/ --
Concerns about Mark Driscoll, the controversial pastor of Seattle's Mars Hill Church, are being circulated in an eleven page memo raising many questions regarding why Driscoll will be speaking on "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth" at The Gospel Coalition's Conference this coming April 21-23 in Chicago. (See http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/about)
[To get the memo by Cathy Mickels, go here.]
In response to those who will claim Driscoll is doctrinally sound, Mickels states, "Since when is it doctrinally sound to refer to Jesus as some 'dude' who tells 'knock-knock jokes'?" Since when does Biblical doctrine tolerate the description of the Old Testament as 'a red-neck hillbilly comedy' containing mocking comments about Noah and Jeremiah?"
Quoting from Driscoll's book, Confessions of a Reformission Rev, Mickels states, "It also appears Mark Driscoll discovered early on that talking about sex could help him build his church. In fact, Driscoll wrote, 'I assumed the students and singles were all pretty horney, so I went out on a limb... Each week I extolled the virtues of marriage, ... oral sex, sacred stripping and sex outdoors...This helped us a lot because apparently a pastor using words like penis and oral sex is unusual, and before you could say aluminum pole in the bedroom, attendance began to climb steadily to more than two hundred people a week.'"
The memo details that in one of Mark Driscoll's most recent projects, he undermines and corrupts gospel truth. For example, Christ said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again," but according to Mickels, without shame this pastor recklessly undermines the words of Jesus for the title of his new book called, PORN-AGAIN Christian. Mickels asked, "Who would tamper with the words of Christ and then use them as an introduction to a discussion on the perverted world of pornography?"
End quote.
The memo says in part:
Oddly enough, it was a stand-up comedian, foul-mouthed Chris Rock, whom Mark Driscoll credits with teaching him how to preach. Mark claims this comedian was "a better study in homiletics than most classes on the subject." (Confessions of a Reformed Rev, pg. 70). Therefore, would he think others should also follow his example, which will require them to fill their mind with curse words and smut in order to learn how to effectively deliver a good sermon?
Admittedly, Mark Driscoll states he is reformed in his thinking, and he can deliver a sound sermon if he wants to. But, that does not negate his reckless, irreverent treatment of God's Word, and the crude language that proceeds out of his mouth. This only makes his ministry more dangerous. If an enemy of the faith had used the same comedy to mock and pervert the Word of God, we would see this attack for what it is. Moreover, throughout the history of the church, vulgarity and playing fast and loose with Scripture would have immediately been identified as falsehood, error, or a serious character flaw. However, for some reason, today many in the Church are compromising and excusing ungodly behavior coming from the pulpit.
For those who would be alarmed by this cavalier handling of God and His Word, Mark also has an arrogant, cocky response. He says, "...religious people are too serious.....judgmental....they're such a joke."
End quote.
There are some HORRID quotes by Driscoll, but you can to go to the link to read them in full.
At least John MacArthur takes a stand regarding such filth. You can find his quotes in the memo, too.
I'm also glad some folks are expressing their disgust with him like Slice of Laodicea and Lighthousetrailsresearch.
However, my concern is why does JOHN PIPER ENDORSE DRISCOLL?
WHY DID JOHN PIPER HAVE DRISCOLL SPEAK ON THE ISSUE OF "The Power of Words and the Wonder of God"?
What about Piper endorsing Paul Tripp and his filthy language? Go here for his s*** use in a promo video for the "Power of Words" Desiring God conference.
Why are folks not upset with PIPER?
Where is the memo to Desiring God conference and ministry?
12 comments:
Dear Denise,
I would think twice about sending any sort of complaint or reproof to Piper. By now he knows with whom he's dealing and he's obviously comfortable with Driscoll's filth. In addition, the Scripture gives as a test of the heart how one deals with false teaching and false teachers. So my guess is that Piper has a heart problem.
The risk is that if we coral him back into line, we have only given a charlatan good marketing advice. In other words, it may be better that he goes his way and we ours, instead of keeping a wolf in the flock. He'll eventually revert to bad things and by then he will be even more embedded in our circles.
Another reason I say this is that God isn't wringing His hands and biting His lower lip. We ought not, either. We don't need the big institutions and the big names. We need only the gospel, just like the apostles, Jesus, and John the Baptist.
And I have a question that I've asked before. May I add your blog to my blogroll? The last time I asked I didn't get an answer or I missed it.
Stay holy,
Phil Perkins.
I am not surprised at the silence.
Pastors everywhere have been failing to guard the flock of Christ from wolves for a very long time.
And the flock? Well they are busy with the many superficial and worldly activities they call church programs. This keeps work oriented 'believers' busy keeping the fires of the smoke screens going.
These smoke screens have a purpose. And it's to keep eyes off of Jesus and the true gospel.
There will be no outcry because there is no discernment among the sheep or the shepherds.
I wonder if you have heard the series on Peasant Princess and if you have read the book song of songs, or for that matter Isaiah or Phil 4. We in America have bought out to a faith that is weak at best and legalistic and religious. I write this to stand up for a brother who has done nothing but bring me closer to Christ, encourage my wife in being a more Godly woman and bring the scriptures to life. Mark does nothing but preach the TRUE gospel, not an Americanized version of it that is politically correct. Let's not be like the Pharisees that ripped into Jesus for calling them the product of Satan and thier mother having sex.
Phil,
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I don't intend to write to Piper. My main issue is with Christians who are all torn up over Lutzer and the conference with Driscoll...but they were NOT torn up when Piper's repeated defended Mark X-Rated Driscoll. So my issue, as usual, is with the people more than the wolf, if you see what I mean.
Your point about not trying to reign back in Piper but let him out of the sheep fold to where he belongs is a good one. Otherwise he will continue to gain a foothold among professing Christians.
I really believe we are seeing the reaping of Piper's hedonism now: it has led him to enjoy the sensual, worldly filth all in HIS name. But God will not be mocked.
Re: the blog roll, that's fine.
Well Barnes, if you can show me how his utter irreverence for Christ, his x-rated language and link is godly and honoring to Christ, go ahead.
Just remember, Driscoll violates many verses that talk about speaking with reverence, humility, seriousness, purity, etc. Talking about anal sex is NOT appropriate, nor is linking to a site that offers dominatrix sex. Clearly you haven't done your homework on Driscoll, so you really can't defend what you are willingly ignorant of.
God demands true Christians test all teachers and that includes Driscoll, and he fails the test.
Denise,
Thanks for the blogroll. And if you want to write to Piper, I was just putting in my 2 cents. Only an opinion.
God bless,
Phil.
Denise-
I do enjoy your blogs, but I see where Barnesblog is coming from. I think you have a bad habit of taking things out of context.
Song of Solomon is pretty X-rated…if you ever read it. But the emphasis is the fact it’s between a husband and wife, and no one else. Most pastors (I’m guessing 99%) will not touch on SoS (and do a halfway decent job of interpreting it correctly). From what little I have listened to Driscoll, I am very impressed so far. Does he walk closer to the line than other pastors? Sure, but I don’t see him trying to cross it.
The dominatrix link (or at least the one I found), yes is walking a line. But you and I are not to say that it is or is not Godly. God created male and female, He created sex, He didn’t say missionary only…so I think there are plenty of ways to enjoy sex….so long as it’s between a married man and woman. If the link pushes, hints, suggests other, or crosses the line to tempt a man or woman, then it would no doubt be in the wrong.
The anal sex…that was a question he was asked. You don’t help anyone by ignoring the question posted by someone. Driscoll (so far as I’ve seen) has not made anal sex a chapter or session in his sermon series or book. So stop throwing stones.
Well SFA then you really don't see my point. Rather you defend a man who does not treat Christ or His Word with serious reverence and sober mindedness.
Your standards are far too low.
And we ARE to judge all things including all of Driscoll's nonsense.
Or perhaps linking to Xrated websites and talking of sex is edifying to a single man or woman in your mind? A true pastor would know not to do this --but this is wisdom from above....and it seems many like Driscoll and his defenders use wisdom from below.
Too bad SFA you didn't bother to do research because several of us have been reporting on Driscoll for some time on various issues. It seems you rather have the garbage veiled in Christianese than the purity of Truth that glorifies God and truly edifies all HIS sheep.
Denise-
I appreciate your kind response. But I question to whose standards are you holding “serious reverence” and “sober mindedness”? Yours? Is it correct? Is it biblical? Surely you hold to your standards…it’s your blog.
Maybe my standards are low. Maybe yours are too high. It reminds me of the Pharisees (who had high standards) that were ready to stone the whore (oops, can I say that word here without being shunned?) It’s biblical. Of what research I have done on Driscoll’s course language: it was well defended, and not even by him, stating that course language was used biblically? Does the word semen offend you? Last I checked, it’s in the bible. Have I heard every word that has come out of Driscoll’s mouth? No. I don’t have time to sit on my pedestal and research and watch and read and post. I have a life that causes me to have a job to support my family. But what I have heard is a preacher that uses 3x more scripture in a sermon than many other preachers (even my own). If he cusses, then I would be weary, but then again, a cuss word has escaped my mouth a time or two (or more), and though I am not proud of it, I can’t throw stones like others, for I am a wretch myself. Would you agree that the preachers of old (Spurgeon, Whitefield, Bunyan, Luther) spoke more coarsely than those that speak of today’s modern gospel?
I haven’t see the X-rated websites except for the Christian nymphos, which I have mentioned in my earlier post (which I have yet to think is x-rated). As another poster mentioned, and as I have mentioned, which you have yet to answer, HAVE YOU READ THE SONG OF SOLOMON? It’s a book in the bible. Please open it up and read it.. Please. IT TALKS OF SEX!
I can’t count the number of times I’ve been to truly worthless chrsitian marriage seminars, sessions, classes, get-aways. And yet NONE of them come forward and really hit the issues. Sure they are soft, loving and many women just LOVE them, but men come away with nothing but how to be more loving to the wife, never the wife being more loving to the husband, touching on the real needs God Himself has given men. If you are a woman, wouldn’t expect you to see this, but many men do. And yet, the Christian divorce rate is just as high as the non-Christian divorce rate. Hmmm…Is anyone catching on here??
Thanks for your time.
SFA,
The Pharisee's standards weren't high at all; often they were able to achieve their own self-made rules. However as Jesus pointed out, God's standards are far higher (Matt. 5)and far more pure.
You can never set the standard higher than God does.
You mention a lot of problems, but the solution isn't Driscoll's disrepect for Christ and His Word. Driscoll points to the flesh, but the true shepherd points to Christ.
Instead of talking about needs of men and women in marriage, Christians should be confronting their lack of spiritual maturity, for that is really the issue. Its fall out will show up in marriage and family, but the REAL issue is always a spiritual one.
And why does a person have to go to a seminare to lear this stuff? Here is part of the problem. The churches are not addressing the REAL issues at all. And therefore you will find a lot of divorce, a lot of selfishness, a lot of sin, and a lot of justification of it.
Instead of wishing away the facts of what Driscoll does in light of Scripture, I hope someday you really do research it. God commands every Christian to judge all things righteously, and that includes Driscoll or any other person. I hope you would agree.
Perfection is not the standard that allows a person to judge another. If that were the case, then Jesus' command would never be obeyed, ever. However, we are to judge without hypocrisy and using the very same standard we judge ourselves with, is what we are to use with everyone else. That standard is to be Scripture.
I think is amazing you would compare Spurgeon to Driscoll. It is leaders just like Driscoll that Spurgeon addresses in his sermons and articles like the Downgrade Contraversy. He did not cuss or swear or talk of sexual things from the pulpit. Rather he quaked in his shoes behind the pulpit in fear of the Living God.
I hope you reconsider your views at some point. I pray to the Lord that He reveal these things to you.
Thanks again for your comments. Upon reading several articles, both for and against Driscoll, hitting a couple forums, I'm seeing our discussion is a common argument taking place throughout the web. It just has to do with axe grinding and there are two distinct sides to it. So I will let it go and ask that you please read the SoS and don't rip it out of your Bible. Thanks
There's no axe to grind with those on the side of Scripture. The issue is standing for truth and exposing error, as Scripture demands of true believers.
Who's going to rip out anything in Scripture. I find that comment a hit and run insult before you run away.
For example, Driscoll, in his run through The Gospel According to Mark, describes Jesus as a guy who,
“[tells] a leper to shut-up”
“does the equivalent of breaking into a church on a Sunday morning to make a sandwich with the communion bread..”
“needs Paxil”
“needs sensitivity training”
“has his guys take a donkey without asking like some kleptomaniac donkeylifter”
“[Is] an obvious workaholic who needed to start drinking decaf and listening to taped sounds of running water while doing aromatherapy so he could learn to relax.”
If you don't find these quotes by Driscoll the least disturbing, not to mention the x-rated garbage and unedifying speech he is infamous for, something is desperately wrong.
I find Driscoll defenders to be like-minded with him and THAT'S a problem: examine yourself to see if you are in the faith, because what you defend is NOT biblical nor pleasing to HIM.
MacArthur rightly said regarding Driscoll:
You know ....there was a time when we worried about the church adjusting itself to accommodate the peoples' social expectations, and then their psychological expectations, and now the latest wave of this let's identify with them at their sensual level . And I think that baser approach - that's something I've never heard of in my life -- I've never, ever, in the name of ministry heard anyone who would speak at that level of explicit language with regard to things sexual...I just think there is a dignity, there's a maturity, there's a holiness, a virtue, a fear of God that belongs with the pastorate, ...there's a refinement that belongs in the ministry. The Bible talks about that ; being 'sober-minded' - the pursuit of godliness,...Speech that comes out of your mouth, no filthy communication, only that which ministers grace to the hearer ....you can't put one thought in their mind and then try to transition them to something holy...it's a new kind of thing that I never, ever, imagined would happen..."
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