Saturday, December 04, 2010

There's No Such Think As A Christian Drunk

I like to keep things very simple. I think Scripture does too. Its clear enough for a baby Christian to understand some things, and deep enough for a mature Christian to continue to be amazed and learn from. Here's the thing: if drunks and liars can't go to heaven, then we cannot think a Christian can be a Christian and a drunk; a Christian and a liar---even if he professes sound doctrine. Years and years of unrepentant sin proves one is lost. It really IS that simple.
1John 1:6 says that if we say we have fellowship with God while we walk in darkness we lie and the truth is not in us.

Drunkeness is a fruit of darkness, the world, those dead and outside of Christ.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you." How much more a "pastor"?

One cannot be a drunk--drinking oneself to Alcoholic Heptitis--and be a Christian, just as one cannot shoot up heroine consistantly and be a Christian. And don't forget, drunks can hide their drinking very well. Just as a false teacher can hide his false teaching or immorality really well....eventually God reveals what was done in darkness, especially done in HIS name while shepherding and teaching His sheep in His name.

If one mourns over his sin and repents, then perhaps its at that time he got saved. Time will reveal if the repentance was real because the fruit that's in keeping with repentance will be evident and be lasting.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

1Cor. 11:21 seems to be talking to professing Christians, but which are not, given 1) the context and 2) the rest of 1Cor. letter including the surrounding verses of that chapter and surrounding chapters. The whole letter as well as 2Cor. is a letter of rebuke and a call to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith. Many were causing division from the truth.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Eph 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit

Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.


1Pe 4:3 For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry.
1Pe 4:4 With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you;
1Pe 4:5 but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.
1Pe 4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

2Co 13:5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?

**Update**

It seems some who have sought to post comments regarding this article are defenders of Alcoholics Anonymous and/or its thinking in regard to the sin of drunkeness. Because of this, here is some information to show just how UNbiblical AA is and therefore should be avoided totally. True resolution to drunkeness is going to be spiritual because God says its a spiritual issue, therefore Scripture and the Person and work of the Holy Spirit is how HE deals with this as well as other sin issues.

How Alcoholics Anonymous Doctrines Compare with Scripture: http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/aa&bib82.html

Roots of AA http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/bobs11_1.html

More info on AA and also includes “Celebrate Recovery” critique.: http://morebooksandthings.blogspot.com/search?q=AA

Psychologist father and neo-pagan mystic Carl Jung's influence on AA: http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/e-books/ECP-ebk.pdf p. 161-162, "The End of 'Christian Psychology'"

AA changed U.S. view of God, say emergents:
http://mywordlikefire.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/aa-changed-u-s-view-of-god-say-emergents/

12 Steps: http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/12steps1.html & http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/12steps2.html

5 comments:

Burning Lamp said...

Good article. The Christian brother in question was not a stumbling drunk, but he was in bondage to alcohol and needed it to get through the day until it took a toll on his body. I have seen where some are treating the situation like it was some minor infraction. Having this surface could be the best thing that ever happened to Bob. Repentance and healing - but the damage done to the credibility of discernment ministries has been damaged at a time when it is needed more than ever.

Mark said...

I have worked with people for some years now who have had to battle alcoholism and drug addictions. Have you ever genuinely repented only to sin again? If you do sin again does that mean that you are not saved? Is there a difference between and unrepentant drunkard and one who is truly remorseful but in bondage to addiction? To say to someone that you aren't a Christian because you have a drinking problem seems unfair. We do have to admonish them that it is not right, but if they are genuine then they already know that. We also need to admonish,love, encourage and strengthen them to help them to overcome.

None of us are perfect and without sin. That doesn't excuse our sin, but we are commanded to bare one another's burdens and love one another and to encourage those that are in need. I know to whom you are referring in your article, and it is disappointing for someone in his position. This is no minor issue, and this brother needs to step down from leadership. He also needs encouragement and support from those around him.

Denise said...

Mark,

This isn't a mere 'drinking problem' and I see that you seem to have bought into the psychobabble relabeling of what the Bible says it is: drunkenness and let's not forget the constant lying about it. Once seen as God sees it, then one can deal with it properly. One cannot be a drunk and a Christian, nor a liar and a Christian. Scripture says you are one OR the other. Drinking oneself into Alcoholic Hepitis isn't a mere "drinking problem" as AA loves to call it. Its being ruled by sin, enslaved to sin, walking in that sin--all contrary to 1John 1 and Romans. Please reconsider this addiction view and see it as Scripture sees it: unrepentant sin.

Pastor Joey Rogers said...

Perhaps one might examine David's response when genuine conviction came to him over his sin... See Psalm 51. One might also note that the grace of our God is greater than any human "addiction" or "illness."

Denise said...

Oreocookieface4,


While slamming me for not mentioning names, you yourself hide behind anonymity.Don't you find that rather hypocritical? Your comments, which are argumentative, caustic, and have little to do with Scripture, won't be allowed here.

As for naming names, I've done that elsewhere. My issue isn't so much the person who is currently dealing with his problem, MY issue is with professing Christians who continue to aruge with Scripture and defend being a drunk while claiming to be a Christian. I stand by what I've said. Scripture clearly says one is EITHER a drunk or a Christian; drunkards DO NOT GO TO HEAVEN.Neither do liars. And if one has lied over the years regarding one's drunkardness, then the sin has just multiplied.

As I have CLEARLY stated, when a person gets saved, they are no longer drunkards, liars, homosexuals, etc. God saves them OUT of that, changes their hearts/minds/wills (ie, regenerates them), and they no longer live in that lifestyle. "and such were some of you, but you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1Cor.6:11).

I have given enough Scripture to demonstrate my position (because Scripture IS where I get my position). I've noticed how many people who are offended by this article do not come with Scripture nor biblical wisdom--only fleshly psycho-heresy mixed with experience.

People please, if you want biblical truth, then you need to bow to the Lord and His Word. Philosophies of the world, like psychology and AA are prohibited by God. HIS Word and the Holy Spirit ARE sufficient to equip us unto every good work and be conformed to Christ as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.