Saddleback Community's recommended reading for "Spiritual Formation" (Emergentspeak):
The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
God's Power to Change Your Life by Rick Warren
Renovation of the Heart by Dallas Willard
The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning
Abba's Child by Brennan Manning
How People Grow by Henry Could and John Townsend
Chasing Daylight by Erwin McManus
Seeds of Hope by Henri Nouwen
Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire by Jim Cymbala
What's So Amazing About Grace by Philip Yancey
The Journey of Desire by John Eldrege
Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas
Sacred Romance by Brent Curtis and John Eldredge
Unbiblical authors for an unbiblical church. Purpose Driven via Emergent. Error upon Error.
A.W. Pink said in part:
"Take heed what you hear" and read! More than forty years ago the saintly Adolph Saphir wrote, "I think the fewer books we read—the better. It is like times of cholera, when we should only drink filtered water." What would he say if he were on earth today and glanced over the deadly poison sent forth by the heterodox, and the lifeless rubbish put out by the orthodox? Christian reader, if you value the health of your soul, cease hearing and quit reading all that is lifeless, unctionless, powerless, no matter what prominent or popular name be attached thereto. Life is too short to waste valuable time on that which does not profit. Ninety-nine out of every hundred of the religious books, booklets, and magazines now being published, are not worth the paper on which they are printed!
To turn away from the lifeless preachers and publishers of the day—may involve a real cross. Your motives will be misconstrued, your words perverted, and your actions misinterpreted. The sharp arrows of false report will be directed against you. You will be called proud and self-righteous, because you refuse to fellowship empty professors. You will be termed censorious and bitter—if you condemn in plain speech—the subtle delusions of Satan. You will be dubbed narrow-minded and uncharitable, because you refuse to join in singing the praises of the "great" and "popular" men of the day. More and more, you will be made to painfully realize—that the path which leads unto eternal life is "narrow" and that FEW there are who find it. May the Lord be pleased to grant unto each of us—the hearing ear and obedient heart! "Take heed what you hear" and read!
End quote.
Showing posts with label Emergent. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Emergent. Show all posts
Saturday, February 05, 2011
Saturday, January 22, 2011
Darrin Patrick
John MacArthur recently took Emergent Darrin Patrick to task for statements made in his book. People are getting upset about this but MacArthur is right. Here's a summary of the issue.
"Here’s the essence of John’s concern, not just with that paragraph, but with the whole book: It’s unwise for Darrin Patrick to encourage young church planters to develop their own theological beliefs. It’s especially unwise when it’s coupled with promoting radical individualism in the ministry." ~ full article here.
Let's take a closer look at Darrin Patrick:
His close connection with Mark Driscoll's Acts 29:
"Patrick serves as lead pastor of The Journey in Saint Louis, Missouri, which he founded in 2002. Darrin also serves on the board of directors of the Acts 29 Church Planting Network as Vice President and is a regular contributor at the Resurgence. His passion is to help the church understand and live the gospel in the world. Today, The Journey runs eight services across four campuses and continues to aggressively plant new campuses and churches in the Saint Louis region and beyond."
Patrick has taught at Driscoll's reTrain in 2010He taught at Rick Warren's Saddleback 12Cities12 Conversations in 2010 (hosted by Ecummenical Lausanne Congress).
Patrick was a panelist at the ecumenical gathering of Lausanne Congress back in March 2010.
Speaker at Emergent Exponential 10: alongside: Ed Stetzer, Ken Blanchard (New Age/Contemplative promoter), Alan Hirsch, Darrin Patrick, Francis Chan, Shane Claiborne, Matt Chandler. This conference includes women "pastors" and head over various church ministries. Also speaking: Tim Stevens, head Goat-Herder at X-rated Granger Community "Church".
Patrick was speaker at Emergent innovation3.
Let's look at Patrick's church, The Journey:
Emergentspeak all over the place. For example, the grammatically incorrect "God is eternal community. " More to follow.... But you can see how that is an odd way of describing God. Its Post-Modern (POMO) verbage.
Quote:
Evangelism, or mission, is not just another program that the church carries out. It is not some peripheral activity. The church is mission. Yes, the church gathers as people being called out (ekklesia) of the world. But the church is at the same time being sent out (apostolos) into the world. The church certainly must be called out from the world, but it also must certainly go back into the world. We are to be holy, set apart and different in our character than those who do not know God. But, we should also refuse to believe the lies the “churched” culture tells us: avoid hanging out with the people in the world because you will be corrupted. We also need to reject the lie that we have to create our own Christian sub-culture and insulate ourselves from the big, bad world. Mission demands that we follow Jesus, friend of sinners, by being immersed in relationships with those far from God, and thus, bring light to lost people in dark cultures. We are called out, but we are sent. It is only in the context of being sent do the metaphors “salt of the earth,” “city on a hill,” and “light of the world” make sense in describing the church. We are to be people who have been encountered by God through the gospel, and then we are to enter the world with the gospel.
Mission is intrinsically connected to community...
Living the gospel, ie – being on mission, can take many forms: explaining the gospel to a friend or stranger, carrying out acts of compassion, or by being faithful to sacrificially love those in your church. The challenge is for all of us to stay in “mission-mode” and not to default to “maintenance-mode.” When it comes to being missional, it is easy for Christians and local churches to be content in our bible studies, worship services and small groups and to forget the world. We do not drift toward mission, we drift away from it. It is not easy to be missional, it is hard work, it takes intentionality. It is much less stressful to hang out with people who look the same, smell the same and believe the same things we do. It is uncomfortable and challenging to intentionally spend time with people who hold differing world-views. But we must push through this discomfort because we are the church. We are the church, the called-out ones. We are the church, the sent-out ones. We are the church, on mission for the sake of the world.
End quote.
The Journey has a Board of Directors. For one that claims to be the pattern from a man who writes and speaks about church planting, this is UNbiblical:
Quote:
Board of Directors "This team ensures The Journey operates in accordance to the law while implementing best practices, policies and procedures regarding business, finances and facilities for a church of our size/complexity."
Executive Elders "This team leads The Journey by setting the overall vision and strategy, overseeing the health and development of the entire church."
Oddly, Darrin Patrick isn't listed under any church. I'm not sure if he just floats around, however he's continually listed as an elder there, on the board there, as senior pastor as well as founder of Journey.
Remember Patrick's church is the fruition of his church planting theology and practice....
Beer and Theology: as reported by " 'Christianity' Today" back in July 2007:
Church planters who receive money from the Missouri Baptist Convention (MBC) must now teach alcohol abstinence. The policy change was sparked by the Journey, a growing interdenominational church that borrowed $200,000 from the MBC to renovate a church two years ago. One of the Journey's outreach groups meets in a St. Louis microbrewery.
"Theology at the Bottleworks was started to reach people who are actively opposed to Christianity, by discussing contemporary cultural issues in a neutral environment," explained Darrin Patrick, founding pastor of the Journey, which attracts about 1,500 people weekly to three sites. Those who attend Theology at the Bottleworks grab a beer and discuss political or spiritual topics, such as the role of women in society, the legal system, or animal rights.
End quote.
And so they continue on their church blog of upcoming events:
Upcoming Events
Theology at the Bottleworks: Have a good conversation on important issues with people both inside AND outside of Christianity at this lively monthly discussion. Our topic is "Should Animals Have Rights?"Wednesday, January 19, 7-9 PM at Schlafly Bottleworks.
If you need additional assistance in getting involved at The Journey Tower Grove please contact our Campus Administrator, Rachel Moskal and she will be glad to help.
Bottleworks is a brewery in St. Louis.
This violates many verses on promotion of drinking and being sober-minded. It also violates the Bible on commands to be salt and light--different and distinct from the world, not like the world. This is so fundamentally opposed to sound doctrine and practice, its incredible anyone has to even discuss it. Yet this is what its like to be a "church planter". Paul never did this. He was the last one to be pragmatic. Consider who hangs out in bars. Is using that which perpetuates drunkenness to promote that which is spiritual, even considered in Scripture? No! How about as a "church"- to promote this--they aren't considering the brother who may either have drunkenness in his past and so is very cautious to be in a bar, but to have that thought put out there--promoted, isn't helping him grow in Christ. The MATURE believer would know this from Scripture.
To drink and talk about theology (notice, not doctrine), is justification for wallowing in worldliness. How can one "show" (as they claim that's what this is about, "living the gospel") the striking and polar differences between Light and Dark, between Death and Life, as well as the call to the Lordship of the Lord which IS part of the Gospel, if they are hanging out in bars drinking?
1Pe 4:3 For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.
1Pe 4:4 In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you;
1Pe 4:5 but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.
1Pe 4:7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer MUST BEabove reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Co 15:31 I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1Co 15:32 If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.
1Co 15:33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
1Co 15:34 Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
Gal 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
Rom 14:22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.
1Th 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1Th 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1Th 5:6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
1Th 5:7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
1Th 5:8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
2Ti 4:5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Monday, November 22, 2010
Catalyst 2011 Matt Chandler Shares The Pulpit With Emergents, Reformergents, Feminists, and other Worldlings
It just gets worse:
The Catalyst Conference March 2011:
"The Catalyst stage is renowned for some powerful moments with speakers. We start by hosting an eclectic mix of seasoned sages, leadership experts, and passionate young upstarts. We introduce social entrepreneurs who are shaping culture and creative minds whose fringe thinking and audacious ideas challenge us all to redefine the playing field.
Over the years, we’ve found that this learning community encourages leaders to return home impressed by God to do specific and amazing things. Some of the very best ideas and leadership insights are born in this room … and we give much of the credit to these gifted communicators and the strong presence of the Spirit of God."
Speakers include:
Andy Stanely, Matt Chandler, Dave Ramsey, Judah Smith, Nancy Ortberg (pastor of 8 years at pagan-friendly Willow Creek Community Church), Christine Caine (Hillsong church, founder of the A21 Camptain), Joseph Rev Run Simmons from MTV and fashion guy, Soledad O'brien, John Perkins, Dorsey Twitter founder, Britt Merrick pastor of Reality in Carpenteria, author, Scot McKnight, David Platt.
The Catalyst Conference March 2011:
"The Catalyst stage is renowned for some powerful moments with speakers. We start by hosting an eclectic mix of seasoned sages, leadership experts, and passionate young upstarts. We introduce social entrepreneurs who are shaping culture and creative minds whose fringe thinking and audacious ideas challenge us all to redefine the playing field.
Over the years, we’ve found that this learning community encourages leaders to return home impressed by God to do specific and amazing things. Some of the very best ideas and leadership insights are born in this room … and we give much of the credit to these gifted communicators and the strong presence of the Spirit of God."
Speakers include:
Andy Stanely, Matt Chandler, Dave Ramsey, Judah Smith, Nancy Ortberg (pastor of 8 years at pagan-friendly Willow Creek Community Church), Christine Caine (Hillsong church, founder of the A21 Camptain), Joseph Rev Run Simmons from MTV and fashion guy, Soledad O'brien, John Perkins, Dorsey Twitter founder, Britt Merrick pastor of Reality in Carpenteria, author, Scot McKnight, David Platt.
Friday, November 19, 2010
Dan Kimball
Recently Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio and A Little Leaven has paraded his new friendship with Emergent Church Movement (ECM) leader Dan Kimball on Facebook complete with multiple photos. Kimball is supposed to be more conservative than some other ECM leaders. Because Rosebrough was considered by many to be sound doctrinally as he has exposed some error in the ECM, Word of Faith movement, etc. it came as a surprise that not only did he befriend Kimball, but sees nothing heretical in Kimball at all. This is the same issue of Piper/Driscoll and Piper/Warren. And it stinks to high Heaven.
Has Kimball become more moderate in his views? Has he repented of his leading thousands astray in the unholy Emergent movement?
No.
Promoting the ECM Catalyst conference for 2011 under the heading "Some of the Events I am Part Of", Kimball also was at this year's conference in which he applauded his fellow Emergent leaders. In addition he mentions the other Emergent conferences he's involved with along with applauding even more Emergent leaders:
Quote:
I had the joy of speaking at Catalyst West Coast last year and will be speaking at it again this year. I'll be speaking at a "Lab" which is the first day of the event. You have to register for the Lab day in addition to the main event. Catalyst is having an Origins* tract and myself, Scot McKnight (I have done research on McKnight) and Margaret Feinberg will be leading Origins labs. Chris Tomlin is leading worship music.
Last year was the first Catalyst event I ever went to and I was really amazed at the incredible way they put on the event. This year the list of speakers includes Andy Stanley, Donald Miller, Mark Driscoll, Erwin McManus, Dallas Willard, Louie Giglio and a bunch others you can read on the Catalyst West Coast web site.
There are so many exciting events coming up this year.... and it is hard to simply highlight one. A couple others are in July I will be part of MissionShift Conference and also on the "Framers" team with Tim Keller, Ed Stetzer, Alan Hirsch, Linda B. and others. The Framers team will be working on a "Missional Manifesto" document which is going to help give some definition to what is "missional". So I am thrilled to be part of that as I believe it is something that is needed and will be helpful in the missional conversation.
In July we also will be putting on our first formal Origins event. It will be Saturday, July 24. it will be in Los Angeles - we will be announcing details soon. Erwin, myself, Dave Gibbons, Scot McKnight, Amena Brown, Margaret Feinberg and several others and some unique speakers we will be announcing soon will be part of this. It will likely be more for west coasters since it is a one-day event. Next summer in 2011 we will put on a several day festival event in Pasadena.
End quote.
Current on Kimball's website he has this on the right sidebar regarding Origins:
"Origins: New Network/Community
Sign up on this link for new network/community Erwin McManus, Dave Gibbons, Scot McKnight, Rick McKinley and some others (see link) are in the beginning process of forming a new community/network based around a passion for evangelism, Scripture and innovation for mission. Go to the above link to sign up for updates as it is formed."
Origins is chalk full of Emergents. Mosaic "gathering" (aka "church") is an Emergent church headed up by Emergent leader Erwin McManus, and is one of the three "core churches" of Origins. Another Mosaic leader is also part of the "Origins Team",
Then there is the post of 3 days with NT Wright.... Catalyst West Coast.... Beauty from Ashes :
Quote:
It is a "Consultation with Bishop NT Wright" (what they call it) with about 20 people. NT Wright is the featured speaker for Wheaton's annual theology event happening later that week. But they formed this pre-event before that big one. NT Wright will be presenting some things about Jesus, Paul and evangelism - and then we have discussion about it, some roundtable discussions and panels.
I am thrilled to be there at this and it is a very unique and diverse mix of 20 people who are going to be there. Myself, Alan Hirsch, Mike Frost, Phyllis Tickle, Shane Claiborne, Rick McKinley, Darrell Guder, Dave Ferguson.... Should be some very fascinating discussions.
I am staying over Thursday night and going to hang out in Chicago with Alan Hirsch and Rick McKinley, so that should be quite fun as well whatever we end up doing.
End quote.
Again, notice the Emergent leaders he lists and he finds this "thrilling". NT Wright is a promoter of the "New Perspective on Paul" which is heresy and has issues with the doctrine of Imputation.
The other day Kimball (who Rosebrough and others claim is not like his Emergent brothers in arms), posted this on homosexuality:
"The reason I invited Deb to speak was from a night I was over Alan and Deb Hirsch's home in LA for dinner last summer. As we were hanging out, we ended up talking about the need for moderate voices in the homosexuality/church discussion. By moderate I mean people who may hold the historical view of sexuality and what we believe God's original intent and design for sexuality is as revealed in the Scriptures. But while holding these views, they do not speak with rhetoric of fear, anger, non-compassion, unintelligence about Scripture or without love. Alan and Deb's theological viewpoint is the same as mine and our church's leadership which would be the church's historical view. But it is important to note, that this is not just a doctrine or theology we are talking about with this. This is lives we are talking about. Hopes, dreams, real people - not merely a doctrinal puzzle to solve or theological discussion. "
The issue of homosexuality is never to be debated. Scripture is very clear on this:
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 11 And such WERE some of you. BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
This issue was not new during Paul's life or that of Jesus' or of Abraham's. How did Paul deal with sexual immorality? 1Cor. 5 is very clear on how he dealt with the Corinithian church. He was angry at their "tolerance" and told them to throw out the professing brother, from the church. Immediate action was to be taken. Later we see that the man did repent and was granted back into the fellowship in 2Cor. But the immediate issue is about the leaven among the people.
Kimball said, " As we were hanging out, we ended up talking about the need for moderate voices in the homosexuality/church discussion. By moderate I mean people who may hold the historical view of sexuality and what we believe God's original intent and design for sexuality is as revealed in the Scriptures. But while holding these views, they do not speak with rhetoric of fear, anger, non-compassion, unintelligence about Scripture or without love. "
Ok look at how this is presented. Scripture is never "moderate" on the issue of homosexuality nor homosexuals. "Moderate" connotes a more "balanced" view as if the view of rejecting whole heartedly homosexuality from every aspect is somehow unbalanced. Its a subtle, but nonetheless attack on those who hold boldly to the authority of Scripture.
Whenever people say they hold to biblical doctrine, and follow that by "but", that's where you need to zero in. And really, we have to question what they mean when they claim their view is "biblical" anyway. But for arguement's sake let's say their profession is in line with the biblical view. There shouldn't be "but" followed by that. What this is, is a way to tone down the harsh dealings against sin.
Kimball is also making an assumption that Christians are NOT dealing with homosexuality without "intellegence about Scripture" or "without love". How they define love will be very different from that of Scripture. Of this I'm sure. And what about fear? Liberals think that anger = fear, and I guarantee that's EXACTLY what's going on here. Rather, we should fear to offend our thrice holy God; we should fear for the souls of men and women in bondage to such deviant behavior of sin and unbelief. We should be angry against those who claim to be Christians and yet are homosexuals. No one can be both, according to Scripture. We should be angry against those who bring shame to HIS name by their unnatural lifestyles. We should be angry that people dare call Jesus "Lord" but refuse to submit to HIM. You see what I mean?
Another thing to note: Kimball says , "Alan and Deb's theological viewpoint is the same as mine and our church's leadership which would be the church's historical view. " Do they have homosexuals sitting in their pews? Are they disciplining the homosexuals if there are? Leadership vs. the rest of the congregation---one group holds to a "biblical view" (and what does he mean by that exactly?) while its ok if the members are in that sin or have a different view? See, there's the Post-modern loophole. And frankly, its all unconvincing. I'll go even a step further. If you REALLY have a biblical view of homosexuality, you will not be debating it or minimizing it (aka humanizing it, tolerating it), but you will strongly preach against it and then your actions as pastor will be strongly against it also (ie, church discipline). The actions or non-actions bear out if one really is being biblical.
In further research I found this regarding Kimball by Lighthouse Trails Research (the book by Kimball which LTR deals with in the article, is heavily promoted at his own website even as I write this.)
Excerpt:
Sexuality in the New Reformation :
...One example of this new reformation mindset on sexuality can be found in Dan Kimball’s book, They Like Jesus but Not the Church. Kimball devotes an entire chapter (called “The Church is Homophobic”) to homosexuality and says that Christians need to reinterpret what we thought the Bible says about homosexuality.
He states:
Because this is such a huge issue in our culture, and because all of the tension and discussion on this issue is over what the Bible says about it, we can no longer just regurgitate what we have been taught about homosexuality.… We cannot do that any longer … We must approach the Bible with humility, prayer, and sensitivity, taking into consideration the original meaning of Greek and Hebrew words and looking into the historical contexts in which passages were written.… we can no longer with integrity merely quote a few isolated verses and say “case closed.”1
Kimball elaborates:
Quite honestly, and some people might get mad at me for saying this, I sometimes wish this [homosexuality] weren’t a sin issue, because I have met gay people who are the most kind, loving, solid, and supportive people I have ever met. As I talk to them and hear their stories and get to know them, I come to understand that their sexual orientation isn’t something they can just turn off. Homosexual attraction is not something people simply choose to have, as is quite often erroneously taught from many pulpits.2
Kimball does not stand alone within the ranks of the emerging church in his permissive, accepting view of homosexuality.....
Notes:1. Dan Kimball, They Like Jesus but Not the Church, op. cit., p. 137.
2. Ibid., p. 138.
End quote.
First of all, as noted, Scripture indeed does say its a choice by those who refuse to submit to God and worship Him alone. Secondly there's no such thing as being born a homosexual. This idea is the notion that is "quite often erroneously taught" by the liberals. Go here and here to find out why there's no such thing as a homosexual gene.
Cloaking liberalism in Christianese doesn't work for those of us who know the Truth well and our power of discernment from the Lord Jesus Christ has been sharpened by constant use of the Sword of the Spirit by the Holy Spirit in our lives as we diligently study the Word and believe it. There is NO doubt that Kimball is indeed trying to get homosexuality accepted by Christians. Incrimentalism is the tool being used. But it still smells to high Heaven.
Clamouring for "Fair and balanced" (aka "moderate") views usually means a little leaven is ok. Not in God's eternal and perfect Book.
Has Kimball become more moderate in his views? Has he repented of his leading thousands astray in the unholy Emergent movement?
No.
Promoting the ECM Catalyst conference for 2011 under the heading "Some of the Events I am Part Of", Kimball also was at this year's conference in which he applauded his fellow Emergent leaders. In addition he mentions the other Emergent conferences he's involved with along with applauding even more Emergent leaders:
Quote:
I had the joy of speaking at Catalyst West Coast last year and will be speaking at it again this year. I'll be speaking at a "Lab" which is the first day of the event. You have to register for the Lab day in addition to the main event. Catalyst is having an Origins* tract and myself, Scot McKnight (I have done research on McKnight) and Margaret Feinberg will be leading Origins labs. Chris Tomlin is leading worship music.
Last year was the first Catalyst event I ever went to and I was really amazed at the incredible way they put on the event. This year the list of speakers includes Andy Stanley, Donald Miller, Mark Driscoll, Erwin McManus, Dallas Willard, Louie Giglio and a bunch others you can read on the Catalyst West Coast web site.
There are so many exciting events coming up this year.... and it is hard to simply highlight one. A couple others are in July I will be part of MissionShift Conference and also on the "Framers" team with Tim Keller, Ed Stetzer, Alan Hirsch, Linda B. and others. The Framers team will be working on a "Missional Manifesto" document which is going to help give some definition to what is "missional". So I am thrilled to be part of that as I believe it is something that is needed and will be helpful in the missional conversation.
In July we also will be putting on our first formal Origins event. It will be Saturday, July 24. it will be in Los Angeles - we will be announcing details soon. Erwin, myself, Dave Gibbons, Scot McKnight, Amena Brown, Margaret Feinberg and several others and some unique speakers we will be announcing soon will be part of this. It will likely be more for west coasters since it is a one-day event. Next summer in 2011 we will put on a several day festival event in Pasadena.
End quote.
Current on Kimball's website he has this on the right sidebar regarding Origins:
"Origins: New Network/Community
Sign up on this link for new network/community Erwin McManus, Dave Gibbons, Scot McKnight, Rick McKinley and some others (see link) are in the beginning process of forming a new community/network based around a passion for evangelism, Scripture and innovation for mission. Go to the above link to sign up for updates as it is formed."
Origins is chalk full of Emergents. Mosaic "gathering" (aka "church") is an Emergent church headed up by Emergent leader Erwin McManus, and is one of the three "core churches" of Origins. Another Mosaic leader is also part of the "Origins Team",
Then there is the post of 3 days with NT Wright.... Catalyst West Coast.... Beauty from Ashes :
Quote:
It is a "Consultation with Bishop NT Wright" (what they call it) with about 20 people. NT Wright is the featured speaker for Wheaton's annual theology event happening later that week. But they formed this pre-event before that big one. NT Wright will be presenting some things about Jesus, Paul and evangelism - and then we have discussion about it, some roundtable discussions and panels.
I am thrilled to be there at this and it is a very unique and diverse mix of 20 people who are going to be there. Myself, Alan Hirsch, Mike Frost, Phyllis Tickle, Shane Claiborne, Rick McKinley, Darrell Guder, Dave Ferguson.... Should be some very fascinating discussions.
I am staying over Thursday night and going to hang out in Chicago with Alan Hirsch and Rick McKinley, so that should be quite fun as well whatever we end up doing.
End quote.
Again, notice the Emergent leaders he lists and he finds this "thrilling". NT Wright is a promoter of the "New Perspective on Paul" which is heresy and has issues with the doctrine of Imputation.
The other day Kimball (who Rosebrough and others claim is not like his Emergent brothers in arms), posted this on homosexuality:
"The reason I invited Deb to speak was from a night I was over Alan and Deb Hirsch's home in LA for dinner last summer. As we were hanging out, we ended up talking about the need for moderate voices in the homosexuality/church discussion. By moderate I mean people who may hold the historical view of sexuality and what we believe God's original intent and design for sexuality is as revealed in the Scriptures. But while holding these views, they do not speak with rhetoric of fear, anger, non-compassion, unintelligence about Scripture or without love. Alan and Deb's theological viewpoint is the same as mine and our church's leadership which would be the church's historical view. But it is important to note, that this is not just a doctrine or theology we are talking about with this. This is lives we are talking about. Hopes, dreams, real people - not merely a doctrinal puzzle to solve or theological discussion. "
The issue of homosexuality is never to be debated. Scripture is very clear on this:
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 11 And such WERE some of you. BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
This issue was not new during Paul's life or that of Jesus' or of Abraham's. How did Paul deal with sexual immorality? 1Cor. 5 is very clear on how he dealt with the Corinithian church. He was angry at their "tolerance" and told them to throw out the professing brother, from the church. Immediate action was to be taken. Later we see that the man did repent and was granted back into the fellowship in 2Cor. But the immediate issue is about the leaven among the people.
Kimball said, " As we were hanging out, we ended up talking about the need for moderate voices in the homosexuality/church discussion. By moderate I mean people who may hold the historical view of sexuality and what we believe God's original intent and design for sexuality is as revealed in the Scriptures. But while holding these views, they do not speak with rhetoric of fear, anger, non-compassion, unintelligence about Scripture or without love. "
Ok look at how this is presented. Scripture is never "moderate" on the issue of homosexuality nor homosexuals. "Moderate" connotes a more "balanced" view as if the view of rejecting whole heartedly homosexuality from every aspect is somehow unbalanced. Its a subtle, but nonetheless attack on those who hold boldly to the authority of Scripture.
Whenever people say they hold to biblical doctrine, and follow that by "but", that's where you need to zero in. And really, we have to question what they mean when they claim their view is "biblical" anyway. But for arguement's sake let's say their profession is in line with the biblical view. There shouldn't be "but" followed by that. What this is, is a way to tone down the harsh dealings against sin.
Kimball is also making an assumption that Christians are NOT dealing with homosexuality without "intellegence about Scripture" or "without love". How they define love will be very different from that of Scripture. Of this I'm sure. And what about fear? Liberals think that anger = fear, and I guarantee that's EXACTLY what's going on here. Rather, we should fear to offend our thrice holy God; we should fear for the souls of men and women in bondage to such deviant behavior of sin and unbelief. We should be angry against those who claim to be Christians and yet are homosexuals. No one can be both, according to Scripture. We should be angry against those who bring shame to HIS name by their unnatural lifestyles. We should be angry that people dare call Jesus "Lord" but refuse to submit to HIM. You see what I mean?
Another thing to note: Kimball says , "Alan and Deb's theological viewpoint is the same as mine and our church's leadership which would be the church's historical view. " Do they have homosexuals sitting in their pews? Are they disciplining the homosexuals if there are? Leadership vs. the rest of the congregation---one group holds to a "biblical view" (and what does he mean by that exactly?) while its ok if the members are in that sin or have a different view? See, there's the Post-modern loophole. And frankly, its all unconvincing. I'll go even a step further. If you REALLY have a biblical view of homosexuality, you will not be debating it or minimizing it (aka humanizing it, tolerating it), but you will strongly preach against it and then your actions as pastor will be strongly against it also (ie, church discipline). The actions or non-actions bear out if one really is being biblical.
In further research I found this regarding Kimball by Lighthouse Trails Research (the book by Kimball which LTR deals with in the article, is heavily promoted at his own website even as I write this.)
Excerpt:
Sexuality in the New Reformation :
...One example of this new reformation mindset on sexuality can be found in Dan Kimball’s book, They Like Jesus but Not the Church. Kimball devotes an entire chapter (called “The Church is Homophobic”) to homosexuality and says that Christians need to reinterpret what we thought the Bible says about homosexuality.
He states:
Because this is such a huge issue in our culture, and because all of the tension and discussion on this issue is over what the Bible says about it, we can no longer just regurgitate what we have been taught about homosexuality.… We cannot do that any longer … We must approach the Bible with humility, prayer, and sensitivity, taking into consideration the original meaning of Greek and Hebrew words and looking into the historical contexts in which passages were written.… we can no longer with integrity merely quote a few isolated verses and say “case closed.”1
Kimball elaborates:
Quite honestly, and some people might get mad at me for saying this, I sometimes wish this [homosexuality] weren’t a sin issue, because I have met gay people who are the most kind, loving, solid, and supportive people I have ever met. As I talk to them and hear their stories and get to know them, I come to understand that their sexual orientation isn’t something they can just turn off. Homosexual attraction is not something people simply choose to have, as is quite often erroneously taught from many pulpits.2
Kimball does not stand alone within the ranks of the emerging church in his permissive, accepting view of homosexuality.....
Notes:1. Dan Kimball, They Like Jesus but Not the Church, op. cit., p. 137.
2. Ibid., p. 138.
End quote.
First of all, as noted, Scripture indeed does say its a choice by those who refuse to submit to God and worship Him alone. Secondly there's no such thing as being born a homosexual. This idea is the notion that is "quite often erroneously taught" by the liberals. Go here and here to find out why there's no such thing as a homosexual gene.
Cloaking liberalism in Christianese doesn't work for those of us who know the Truth well and our power of discernment from the Lord Jesus Christ has been sharpened by constant use of the Sword of the Spirit by the Holy Spirit in our lives as we diligently study the Word and believe it. There is NO doubt that Kimball is indeed trying to get homosexuality accepted by Christians. Incrimentalism is the tool being used. But it still smells to high Heaven.
Clamouring for "Fair and balanced" (aka "moderate") views usually means a little leaven is ok. Not in God's eternal and perfect Book.
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