Sunday, April 19, 2009

Steve Camp Back Peddals On Mark Driscoll

"The church has lost her testimony. She has no longer anything to say to the world. Her once robust shout of assurance has faded away to an apologetic whisper. She who one time went out to declare now goes out to inquire. Her dogmatic declaration has become a respectful suggestion, a word of religious advice, given with the understanding that it is after all only an opinion and not meant to sound bigoted.""Pure Christianity, instead of being shaped by its culture, actually stands in sharp opposition to it." -A.W. Tozer

What an utter shame that the righteous fall before the wicked. Compromise because of friendship with a man who is impure before man and God, without a clean conscience, is truly disloyal to Christ.

I saw a recent post at Steve Camp's website on how bloggers should be careful when criticizing Christians and to be cautious with the words we use, etc. Last night I figured out why he posted that. He sadly did a back flip with regard to Mark Driscoll and took full blame for all he said in the past regarding to Driscoll's horrific language and treatment of Scripture. Instead, while saying he believes pastors are to be careful with their language, declared himself to have been the one in sin. So now he's going to try to give wisdom those who refuse to cave to such raunchy behavior because he has a new friend in the putrid-mouthed man, Mark Driscoll. I lost respect for Steve and it grieves me deeply. In fact I was very upset last night and then again this morning when I woke up to get ready for church.

A friend of mine rightly said to me today in an email as she pondered his turn around: " Did he take heat? So what. Sometimes doing the right thing takes great strength and IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Why do we always look back instead of forward?"

Why indeed? Are we not to count everything loss for the sake of gaining Christ? Does HE not demand purity? Why is it so hard for so many Reformers (Driscoll says he's a reformer) to reject a false teacher entirely instead of hanging on to the fleshly corpse of false brother?

Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jud 1:8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones.

Jud 1:10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively.

Jud 1:12 These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; Jud 1:13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

Jud 1:16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.

Many will say "Lord Lord did we not perform miracles in your name...." Did Jesus say, "Well, I know your heart and meant to do good" and let them into Heaven? "Well I realize no one has perfect doctrine or behavior, so that's ok, come on in"? NO! He said:

Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Its almost like so many professing Christians, even Reformers, deny this passage. They can't see that such men are in their own camp (this is pride).While looking down at Arminians who often say, "love the sinner, hate the sin", they love the false teacher, but just hate his false teaching. They cannot bear to reject a man entirely (unless its a Charismatic nut or a pre-mill Christian--hence the hypocrisy), just the bits they disagree with. But God calls us to a higher standard.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Where do they think false prophets come from? They come from their own churches. 1John 2:19 describes this as well. They were never true believers, but yet Christians will continue to call them "brother" and slap the name of Christ Jesus onto a dead, decaying, rotting corpse and rejoice in that!

Mar 7:20 And he said, "What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals." (1Co 15:33)

It seems to me, the more tolerant people become of men like Driscoll, Piper, Tripp, etc., the more they will accept them and their corruption. There's a reason God said do NOT BE DECEIVED: BAD COMPANY RUINS GOOD MORALS. This truly dishonors the Lord. Just read 2 Cor. 6. One CAN be deceived into thinking that hanging with foul-mouthed and brazen fleshly men won't change them, but Scripture says IT SURELY WILL.

3John 11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,


In verse 2, the word "insincerity" is hupokrisis, which means hypocrit. "Seared" is kauterizao, which menas to brand as with a hot iron. A seared steak is not soft on the outside anymore. Nor is a seared conscience. Its a type of hardening. One with a seared conscience is a hypocrit and speaks lies and will continue to do so, while claiming Christ Jesus, because they are hardened to the Truth. They do NOT have a clear conscience before God and man.

And where these men are oh-so-tolerant of a disqualified pastor, they are quite INtolerant of those with discernment, exposing the deeds of darkness.

How much do you REALLY believe HIS Word? If you defend Driscoll, then you don't really believe what HE said, and you too, are deceived and your conscience is being seared.

Agape love does not rejoice in evil, but with the TRUTH.

"I believe that one reason why the church at this present moment has so little influence over the world, is because the world has so much influence over the church! Nowadays, we hear professors pleading that they may do this, and do that--that they may live like worldlings. My sad answer to them, when they crave this liberty is, "Do it if you dare. It may not cost you much hurt, for you are so bad already. Your cravings show how rotten your hearts are. If you are hungering after such dogs food--go dogs, and eat the garbage! "– Spurgeon

**Update**

As a reminder I'd like to repost to Slice's article from January 2009 which reflects the heart of what I'm saying.

Cathy Mickles offers insight:

I am astonished that evangelical pastors would highlight a pastor not only known for his crudeness and careless handling of Scripture, but a pastor who also credits foul-mouthed comedian Chris Rock with teaching him how to preach,” stated Cathy Mickels, former Washington state president of Phyllis Schlafly’s Eagle Forum and co-author of Spiritual Junk Food: The Dumbing Down of Christian Youth.

In response to those who will claim Driscoll is doctrinally sound, Mickels states, “Since when is it doctrinally sound to refer to Jesus as some ‘dude’ who tells ‘knock-knock jokes’?” Since when does Biblical doctrine tolerate the description of the Old Testament as ‘a red-neck hillbilly comedy’ containing mocking comments about Noah and Jeremiah?”

Quoting from Driscoll’s book, Confessions of a Reformission Rev, Mickels states, “It also appears Mark Driscoll discovered early on that talking about sex could help him build his church. In fact, Driscoll wrote, ‘I assumed the students and singles were all pretty horney, so I went out on a limb… Each week I extolled the virtues of marriage, …oral sex, sacred stripping and sex outdoors…This helped us a lot because apparently a pastor using words like penis and oral sex is unusual, and before you could say aluminum pole in the bedroom, attendance began to climb steadily to more than two hundred people a week.’”

“It is just as puzzling,” observes Mickels, “why a pastor, who warns young men about the dangers of pornography, admits to frequenting a barbershop Driscoll describes as ‘providing the finest selection of waiting area pornography in our city.’”

Mickels concludes, “Instead of a pastor spiritually lifting up the Body of Christ to a higher standard, Mark Driscoll is dragging the Church through the gutter. Is it any wonder we are losing spiritual ground in this country?”

End quote.

Then Slice rightly comments:

Mark Driscoll should be shunned by decent people everywhere. There are Mormons and certainly Muslims who have more of a sense of decency and propriety in sexual matters than he does. There is a filthiness about this man that evokes a strong desire for a disinfecting bath after watching him. This is not the spirit of Christ. It is the spirit of the age.

Equally guilty are the pathetic, sniggering, middle-aged pastors who refuse to rebuke him, but rather see him as a doctrinally orthodox Sexpert for the young, who, as we know, must discuss every bodily function, fluid, and sexual detail in vivid color in order to be “real”. What we really have is a nation of vulgarians, both inside the church and out. What does Scripture say? Don’t fornicate, don’t commit adultery, keep your mind pure, honor your marriage vows. Absolutely none of the prurient detail explored by Driscoll is necessary. None of it. But Mark Driscoll enjoys his role as Sexpert. It gets him attention, you see. There is no other explanation for it. And it’s time we turned our back, collectively, on such exhibitionist behavior.

Unquote.

Absolutely women! You are both right on.

3 comments:

SJ Camp said...

Denise
Good day my friend. I was just sent the link to your article about me and wanted to briefly respond.

Please know that I appreciate many things that you do for the Lord and His truth. But I say with humility and grace to you, that you have not represented me accurately in your post.

In my blog writings of late, I never apologized for the admonitions of truth convictions that I have addressed to MD in the past; however, I did ask forgiveness for the manner in which I addressed those admonitions. I should have approached this brother and pastor in the Lord with clothed with humility, charity, grace, and Christlikeness - with a desire for biblical change in God's sovereign timing, not just to confront and swing the hammer of truth. That was wrong of me Denise and I needed to repent. I hope you will not belittle that work of grace in my life - it has come with many tears, prayer and long hours spent pouring over God's Word.

I have no desire to be known as a stormy petrel. We need to speak that which edifies, encourages and exhorts. To instruct in sound doctrine and then refute those who contradict (Titus 1:9). But we should always do so (even in our blogging) with redemptive words, not just with words that vent and rant. Quoting verses alone doesn't make one Christlike nor right in their assertions.

May I encourage you to pray for Mark and entrust Him to the Great Shepherd of the church - Jesus Christ the Righteous. It is the Lord who does the chastening and the sanctifying. Not you; and not me.

Thank you for listening. May the Lord grant us all the grace to speak the truth in love.

Yours for the Master's use,
Steve
2 Cor. 13:11

Denise said...

Hi Steve,

Thank you for coming by. I really didn't want to even have to deal with this issue, but if I wanted to keep my integrity, I could not in good conscience before God, challenge Piper and his defense of Driscoll and not also challenge you. If you see what I mean, it would've been giving you a free pass and I can't do that. And I want you to know I have really appreciated much of what you post at your website. This really does grieve me.

I do believe I mentioned how you still held to the belief that pastors should be careful with the words they use. I understand you did not back down on that.

However, if I may be so bold as to say, you really have in essence defended the indefendable by backing down and befriending a foul-mouthed man who claims to speak for the Master.

Clearly Driscoll is disqualified as a pastor on many levels. His dark views of Christ and Scripture reveal a dark heart. And here is why I cannot understand how so many people can overlook his horrifc treatment of holy things and call him brother and friend.Why do people feel they must accept the false teacher but reject the false teaching? Did Jesus call us to that?

I hope you re-read this newsletter: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/driscoll_michels.pdf

It reflects what I believe and offers documentation of quotes by Driscoll.

Remember back when you had that video up from the DG conference promotion with Paul Tripp using the "s" word and you wondered where the "real Piper" went? I commented that this IS the real Piper. I truly hope Steve that you see you are doing the same thing Piper is doing, except you still believe in purity of speech from the pulpit...which I do appreciate.

That said, Driscoll hasn't changed at all. He continues in his course talk and horrifying portrayal of the things of Scripture. He isn't repentant. In fact, this is precisely why Piper had him teach on the words we use at his DG conference: because he DOES push the envelope.

Driscoll has NO FEAR OF GOD at all. His mock humility is not sincere. True repentance would include humility of heart AND drastic change of behavior. Neither has happened, and moreover he continues to be celebrated instead of sternly rebuked.

I do understand that how we confront different people will differ depending on a number of things like if they are or claim to be mature Christians, if they lost, if they are truly seeking, if they are in pain, etc. I see Jesus and the apostles also doing this. Jesus' treatment of the Samaritan woman was different than His treatment of the Pharisees.
But Driscoll is a PASTOR and this is precisely why Driscoll should not be coddled, but sternly rebuked and shunned until he truly repents---not patted on the back, not invited to speak on language, not befriended.

By his role in his church he declares himself to be mature, as all elders MUST be so. So this isn't a maturity issue. This is a heart issue. Because he is not some greenhorn young pastor fresh out of seminary, but a seasoned, mature, Emergent leader who cannot control his language nor show respect in the pulpit for the holiness of God, he should be rebuked without wavering (see 1 Tim. 5:20-21). Also, he has NO CLUE how he is causing many Christians to stumble with his sex talk---he SHOULD KNOW BETTER than to go where he might cause the weaker brother to stumble.

This is so elementary that even my 15 year old sees it. She is astonished that a man who claims to be a pastor speaks so horribly. Yet people are excusing Driscoll and Tripp left and right. This is wrong, Steve.

Friendship will not cure what ails this man. Piper couldn’t and ended up parading him around, endlessly defending his frien and then included Paul Tripp into the filth box, which used to be a pulpit. We are to not be friends with those who claim Christ, but scoff at His Word and His ways: do NOT be deceived: bad company corrupts good character, Scripture says. By tolerating it for the sake of friendship, you will end up accepting it. Piper did. Paul Tripp did. So have a slew of others. Can a good tree produce rotten fruit? Can the flesh this man boasts in help anyone spiritually? No. Let's be loyal to Christ and HIM ALONE and not pal around with those who want to be like the world and walk in darkness.

Thank you for taking the time to read not only my post, but this response, Steve. I realize its not easy hearing something like this. But I think you take it in the spirit in which it is given--honor to Christ above all else.

In Him,

Denise

ZionFreak said...

Excellent! So much compromise. God is very clear in Revelation 18:4-5.