Feminist Reformers: Tim Keller, John Frame, Mark Driscoll

Tim Keller: Summary: "In a nutshell, our position is this: whatever a non-ruling elder male can do in the church, a woman can do. We do not believe that I Timothy 2:11 or I Corinthians 14:35-36 precludes women teaching the Bible to men or speaking publicly. To "teach with authority" (I Timothy 2:11) refers to disciplinary authority over the doctrine of someone. "

Specifics:

Admittedly, although it seems ridiculous, for Keller to say that his position paper, written along with wife Kathy, "represents many years of reflection, discussion, experimentation and practice. It is not an exegetical paper, studying passages in detail. It will, we hope, serve as a foundational paper for future patterns of women's ministry in the life of our congregation."

"In marriage, wives are told to give headship to their husbands (Ephesians 5:21 ff.)"

"The Bible directs that a wife, when she marries, give that "right/responsibility" freely to her husband. ...But when there is a "hung jury", and it is critical for one person to take both leadership and responsibility, the “head's” service takes the form of initiation. He leads by over-ruling."

In addition Keller says, "The traditionalist says: "Women must submit because women aren’t fit for making decisions, for leadership." But many couples will admit that the wife is more decisive and has better judgement than the husband. Besides, the Bible no where gives that as a reason."

Keller goes on:

Elders are to be men (1 Timothy 3:1-3). In 1 Timothy 2:11, Paul forbids women to "teach or have authority" over men. In 1 Corinthians 14:35-36, women are not to take part in determining whether a teacher is teaching sound doctrine. (Note: Paul's command for women to "keep silent in church" cannot mean that they may never speak publicly. That would contradict I Corinthians 11 where women are told to pray and prophesy. It means they are to keep silent when the prophets are judged.)

Elders are leaders who admit or dismiss people from the church, and they do "quality control" of members' doctrine. These are the only things that elders exclusively can do. Others can teach, disciple, serve, witness.

In a nutshell, our position is this: whatever a non-ruling elder male can do in the church, a woman can do. We do not believe that I Timothy 2:11 or I Corinthians 14:35-36 precludes women teaching the Bible to men or speaking publicly. To "teach with authority" (I Timothy 2:11) refers to disciplinary authority over the doctrine of someone. For example, when an elder says to a member: "You are telling everyone that they must be circumcised in order to be saved—that is a destructive, non-Biblical teaching which is hurting people spiritually. You must desist from it or you will have to leave the church." That is "teaching authority"—it belongs only to the elders.

Thus, women at Redeemer will be free to use all the gifts, privately and publicly. There are no restrictions on ministry at all. There is a restriction on the office of elder. Why? Because the Bible precludes it, and therein it points us back to the Trinitarian pattern which is strong in marriage and muted in society, but which is practiced in the church.

End quote.

John Frame : Summary: "The question submitted by the session was this: "Is it Biblically permissible for a woman to teach men and women in an Adult Sunday School Class if she is submitted to the session?Our conclusion, then, is that Scripture does not forbid under all circumstances a woman to teach men and women in an Adult Sunday School Class."

Specifics:

Quote:

Your committee unanimously holds that Scripture excludes women from the special teaching office. Scripture plainly teaches this limitation in I Cor. 14:33-35 and in I Tim. 2:11-15. But Scripture says with equal plainness that women are not excluded from the general teaching office. The passages mentioned above have a universal reference within the church. All believers, male and female (allowing as we must for differences in physical and mental ability) can and may teach one another.

Scripture specifically endorses women teaching children (II Tim. 1:5) and it urges that older women be trained to teach younger women (Tit. 2:3-5). Further, it is evident that in some biblical contexts women taught men with divine approval. There were female prophets in the early church (Acts 21:9, I Cor. 11:5), in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel that "your sons and daughters shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17). Further, Priscilla and her husband Aquila are both mentioned as those who instructed Apollos more accurately concerning the Word of God (Acts 18:24-28).

Mark Driscoll:

"At Mars Hill we seek to en­courage women to use the abilities that God has given them to their fullest extent in anything from teaching a class to leading a community group, overseeing a ministry, leading as a deacon, speak­ing in church, leading wor­ship, serving communion, entering into full-time paid ministry as a member of the staff, and receiving formal theological education-or basically every opportunity in our church but the office of elder/pastor." Mark Driscoll, "Church Leadership," 47. *Btw, Driscoll will be appearing on Robert Schuller's Hour of Demonic Power in two weeks.


I'd like to go back to something Keller said. He said, "In 1 Corinthians 14:35-36, women are not to take part in determining whether a teacher is teaching sound doctrine."

So he's saying that women can't have discernment. They're good enough to teach men, but they have to shut up and not question. Scripture doesn't restrict the gift of discernment to men only. If so, I'd like to see that verse. On the contrary:

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.

Discernment is not a male gift. Now, a woman must be cautious because Eve was deceived. However, that said, God does not restrict discernment to the men. He does restrict teaching me to the men, as Paul says in 1Cor. 14 and 1Tim. 3.

I would further say that every Christian is responsible before God for their actions, including their deception. A woman cannot hide behind her husband and blame him for her sin. If the church's leadership or her husband is not aware or does not see the heresy of a teacher or teaching, but a woman does, then she must alert them of this. This is God's functioning of the gift of discernment, because clearly not all in leadership have it. Discernment does not usurp authority; rather it helps it. It aids in the growth and protection of the sheep. We are Christians first, not male or female (Gal. 3:28) and Truth trumps everything including all positions and relationships. Therefore, if a woman, who is given the gift of discernment by God, sees a false teaching or teacher creeping into the local church, she should go to her husband and the leadership and let them know. Then they have the responsibility to deal with it. At the very least, she can protect herself from listening to a false teacher.

1Tim. 2: 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 1Tim2: 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women  will be saved  through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

1Cor. 14: 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

A plain and clear reading of this shows that silence would include not teaching. A woman is not to teach a man. Period. This doesn't take a Greek class to figure out. No linguistic gymnastics are needed. It says women are not to teach men. Why? Because it was the woman who was deceived, not the man. And its the man that is the leader, not the woman. Its so simple that a child can understand this (and many do!).

As to these men who think women can be deacons, Acts sets the standard and interpretation of later passages:

Act 6:2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

Also, having young people and women in leadership was not an approval by God, but judgement. Besides Deborah, we see this:

Isa 3:11 Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him, for what his hands have dealt out shall be done to him. 12 My people--infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths.

John MacArthur actually does exegete 1Tim. 2:10-12,contrary to Keller, Frame, and presumably Driscoll, but here's a snippet summary:

Silence, you’ll remember, refers to not teaching. It refers to not teaching. Subjection refers to not ruling. That is, women in the church are not to be the teachers when the church assembles itself in its constituted worship, women are not to be the teaching persons and they are not to be the ruling ones. The context makes it very clear that that’s what he has in mind because verse 12 says, “I permit not a woman to teach,” and therein does he define the kind of silence he’s talking about, nor to usurp authority, and therein does he define the kind of subjection he is talking about.


In the assembly of the church women are not to teach and preach and they are not to rule. Now there’s no doubt that that’s exactly what he is saying. Obviously in Ephesus some were seeking to do both of those things and that’s why he has to deal with this. Now in our last message we looked at a parallel passage in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 verses 34 and 35. And in that passage we found that Paul prohibits women in the assembly of the church from speaking in languages and interpretation and also from expressing the gift of prophecy. He says, “Let the women keep silence in the churches.” So we learn then from 1 Corinthians 14 when the church comes together women were not to speak in tongues when tongues were a valid gift. They were not to engage in the public interpretation and they were not to be involved in the prophesying. Here we add to that that they were not to be ruling in the church and they were not to be the preacher/teacher. Furthermore, we learned from verse 8 that women were not to lead the congregation in prayer, but the congregation was to be led in prayer by men. That’s why Paul says in verse 8, using boulema which is the will of command, I command therefore that definite article, the men pray everywhere. So when it comes to the worship of the church, the praying, the teaching, the speaking for God and the preaching is to be done by the men.

End quote.

And if you want to argue the exceptions like Deborah, Athaliah, Aquill and Priscilla, and Anna etc. MacArthur deals with them here. He reminds us there were never any female Kings or prophets or apostles.