Sunday, August 02, 2015

Word of Faith Hillsong NYC Church's Carl Lentz and Redeemer Presbyterian Church's Tim Keller: don't speak publicly about sodomy

I suspect it won't be long before Tim Keller's church, Redeemer Presbyterian in NYC will follow Word of Faith Carl Lentz' church, Hillsong NYC, and openly accept sodomites not only as members but in ministry:

Josh Canfield, in an interview with, said this in January of 2015: ” I became truthful with my church. I’m a part of Hillsong NYC. I’m one of their choir directors. I also sing on their Worship team. They’ve been amazing as well. Nothing has changed there now that I’m completely out and with Reed. He sings in the choir as well.

"When it comes to homosexuality, I refuse to let another human being or a media moment dictate how we approach it. Jesus was in the thick of an era where homosexuality, just like it is today, was widely prevalent. And I'm still waiting for someone to show me the quote were Jesus addressed it on the record in front of people. You won't find it because he never did."

The couple shared that gay men and women were welcomed at Hillsong NYC, with Lentz stating, "We have a lot of gay men and women in our church and I pray we always do."
Mrs. Lentz added, "It's not our place to tell anyone how they should live, it's – that's their journey."
End quote.

By the way Lentz is wrong. The culture in which Jesus lived was not an era of homosexuality just like today. That's not true. There was sodomy, as has been sin after the Fall, the most infamous being Sodom, Gomorrah,Admah, and Zeboiim. Jesus' culture was a Jewish one and it rejected sodomy.

As John MacArthur recently noted on the topic in his sermon "We Will Not Bow":

There were even people in ancient times, referred to in the book of Deuteronomy who were emasculated—who were deprived of their male-ness, involuntarily or voluntarily. Deuteronomy 23:1 says, any emasculated man was forbidden to enter the assembly of the Lord, forbidden to enter the assembly of the Lord.
These kinds of sins that blur the clear distinction between male and female are satanic. And by the way, no feature of pagan society—no feature of pagan society in ancient times—filled the Jews with greater loathing than the toleration or admiration of homosexuality. They understood what the Old Testament said. The Old Testament specifically prohibits it. Do not lie with a man as a man lies with a woman. That is detestable. Leviticus 18:22. First Corinthians 6:9–10, the New Testament says the same thing: Homosexuals and effeminate shall not inherit the kingdom of God. It is not an alternate lifestyle; it is a deviation. It is a perversion. It is a corruption.
End quote.
Carl Lentz, in his dishonest portrayal of the culture Jesus lived in and what Jesus did or did not say about sodomy, sounds like Tim Keller: they both want to be quiet when it comes to publicly proclaiming sodomy as an abomination that sends a person to Hell (and no, Jesus was not silent on the subject, either in the NT times, or in the OT--remember, He is the Author of Scripture and He appeared to Moses with two angels to deal with sodomy VERY publicly as a judgment upon the cities that were filled with sodomy, in Gen. 18-19). 
Gen 18:1  And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. 
Gen 18:16  Then the men set out from there, and they looked down toward Sodom. And Abraham went with them to set them on their way. 
Gen 18:17  The LORD said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, 
Gen 18:18  seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 

Gen 18:20  Then the LORD said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, 
Gen 18:21  I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know." 

Gen 18:26  And the LORD said, "If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake." 

Jesus did speak against sodomy:
Mat 11:23  And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Luk 17:29  but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—30  so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Here is Keller in an interview at Veritas.

This is the interview Keller had with Brian Chappell:

KELLER: Well, it’s much, much, much easier to to have private conversations about it. I think…..uh…I can make this short. I…I believe in general that if you preach on why homosexuality is a sin,..uhhh….there are……at least in my…in my church I know there’s lots and lots of folks who have same sex attraction who know that that’s not….as a Christian, I can’t do that. I’m not gonna go there. There’s a good number of them. I’ve got a lot of non-Christians who are present who are friends of gay people but are not gay. Uhhh…and then uhh there’d be a number of people with same sex attraction who…are there. And generally speaking, it’s almost impossible to preach a sermon and hit all 3 or 4 of those constituencies equally well. Ummmm.. it’s just.. it’s just think know…you’re a communicator. You know you need to…well, what’s my goal? Who are my audience! it’s like a conundrum you can’t solve. So, the best thing has always been for me..[CONSPICUOUS COUGH]…to not do the public teaching as much as segment my audience through…ummm [CONSPICUOUS COUGH]..Books, through classes, through one-on-ones, and so on. I think the time is probably coming in which we’re going to have be more public in how we talk about homosexuality. And I haven’t….I’m actually thinking quite a lot about it. Uhhh.. as to how I will go about it or how we should go about it but I’m not prepared to give you 3 bullet points.



David Mitra said...

hey can you please give me a link on the veritas talk with keller, thanks!

Denise said...

Yes of course. I'm sorry it's not linked (I thought I had done so--I'll add it). Here it is:

Denise said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Denise said...

Ok I see the problem and I corrected it.

The Veritas interview having to do with sodomy is here:

The other one I just listed in my previous comment is the entire interview.

The transcript I posted in the article is from Keller's interview with Bryan Chapell. You can go to the Baylyblog to hear the audio.

I've made a few corrections to reflect this, thank you David.