This is a Christian blog dealing with various issues. “Discernment is not simply a matter of telling the difference between what is right and wrong; rather it is the difference between right and almost right.” -Charles Spurgeon. Scripture is my authority for all things regarding to life and godliness. 2 Cor. 10: 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Wednesday, March 07, 2018
John Piper Promoted NAR's C. Peter Wagner On Territorial Spiritual Warfare
Here's some background excerpts from 1998 by Joe Maxwell, Heather Johnson, and John Geary at Christianity Today on C. Peter Wagner, whom it turns out, John Piper endorsed on the issue of spiritual warfare back in 1992:
John Wimber, whose ministry helped spawn new theological lingo and mass Christian movements—including the Vineyard—died on November 17, the result of a fall that caused a fatal brain hemorrhage. He was 63.
Wimber had already recovered from cancer in 1993 and a stroke in 1995 (CT, Oct. 7, 1996, p. 49). Last year he underwent triple-bypass heart surgery.....
Wimber graduated from Azusa Pacific University in 1970 and pastored the Yorba Linda Friends Church for five years. In 1974, Wimber began breaking traditional evangelical molds when he became director of church growth at the Fuller Evangelistic Association. He later taught a controversial and well-attended "Signs and Wonders and Church Growth" class at Fuller Theological Seminary. In 1978 he became full-time pastor of what became VCF in Yorba Linda, California....
Today, thousands of traditional evangelical churches each Sunday sing Vineyard-produced songs, and Wimber's effective marketing has offered many Protestant denominations and individuals a nonthreatening way of charismatic expression.
"The Vineyard has exercised influence all out of proportion to its numbers," Regent University ..
End quote. (bold, my emphasis)
Piper, in his message on "Angels and Prayer" based in Daniel 10, (excerpts follow below) he starts off with teaching Peter Wagner's views of territorial spirits, then mentiones YWAM, and then goes to Daniel 10. There is no criticism of either Wagner or YWAM and that's not surprising, especially with Wagner, given that they both were at Fuller Theological Seminary. A few years earlier, Piper took some 50 folks from his church to California to a conference hosted by John Wimber's ministry church, Vineyard. Notice the Third Wave movement is mentioned. This movement morphed into the New Apostolic Reformation movement, of which Wagner was The Apostle. Of course he, like the other Word of Faith leader, died of an illness, proving their own doctrines and practices of having "enough" faith and speaking away illnesses a complete and utter failure.
What's Happening in the World Today
Before we look at Daniel let me give you a taste of the kind of thing that is happening today.
Peter Wagner's Assessment
Peter Wagner just published a book called Engaging the Enemy: How to Fight and Defeat Territorial Spirits. He believes that as we move into the '90s, the Holy Spirit is calling the church to a spiritual warfare with territorial spirits—evil spirits, demons, principalities, powers, world rulers of this present darkness, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places (Ephesians 6:12)—which attach themselves to specific territories or regimes or institutions.
His assessment is that in the 1950s God began to ripen a harvest of souls as he put evangelism high on the church's agenda. In the 1960s God pressed the issues of compassion for the poor and oppressed on the conscience of the church. In the 1970s there were the first seeds of the growing prayer movement around the world. And in the 1980s, with the third wave, there has been a great emphasis on supernatural power in ministry, especially gifts relating to prophecy and healing. As we enter the 1990s, Peter Wagner sees spiritual warfare with territorial spirits moving to the forefront....
Of course, spiritual warfare is not new. But the way territorial spirits are being confronted seems to be new. For example, in Cordoba, Argentina, 200 Youth With A Mission missionaries gathered from around the world to tell fans at the World Cup (soccer playoffs) about Jesus. But no one seemed to be listening to their good news. Their evangelism efforts were listless and powerless; their Spanish tracts were ignored.
The missionaries decided to devote a day to prayer and fasting. In that meeting God revealed that Satan was not only busy with individuals, but that he had immersed himself deeply into the culture of the territory—especially in the form of pride....
In other words, the way many are doing spiritual warfare today is by moving into an area, seeking to discern supernaturally the spirit that Satan has assigned to oppress and blind and control the area, and then specifically serving notice on that spirit that Jesus Christ is triumphant in this place and breaking its spiritual hold on the region. S. D. Gordon said 90 years ago, "Intercession is winning the victory over the chief, and service is taking the field after the chief is driven off." That's the strategy that many seem to be applying today with a direct focus on territorial spirits.
Let's look at Daniel 10 to see what it will teach us about these things....
Piper has been a Charismatic sin the 1970's--his days at Fuller.
After saying that Paul and Silas were singing in prison because they were in spiritual warfare (something Scripture doesn't even say), he [Piper] goes on:
Four years ago I was called late one night to come to an apartment where supposedly there was a demon-possessed woman. I called Tom Steller and we went together while our wives prayed at home. What we found was a woman held in a room by some young Christian women who were intent on seeing the demon driven out of this woman. For about two hours I talked to her and read her Scriptures and prayed prayers of deliverance.
She became increasingly violent, knocking the Bible out of my hand and grabbing the prayer sheets and shoving me. At one point, about one in the morning, when the conflict rose to a fever pitch between the Word of God and the satanic force in this woman, someone in the group began to sing. It was one of our familiar worship songs. We sang it again and again and the Lord gave us new words for it each time. The effect on her was dramatic. She began to tremble and threaten us if we didn't stop. Then she threw herself on the floor and screamed for Satan not to leave her. She went into convulsions and then went limp. When she came to, she remembered nothing of what happened and was willing to read Scripture and pray.
Did you catch that? Piper is saying that 1) God gave them inspired words to sing (they should then be immortalized in our Bibles after Rev. 22:21) but apparently not a new tune, and implies that 2) Scripture is NOT sufficient to deal with Satan, thinking it was incompetent, contrary to Matt. 4 where Jesus did just that. He did not sing, He quoted the living Word of which He is Author. Paul also says we are to use the weapon of the Word against such attacks. Such a view, that Scripture isn't enough to battle Satan is not part of the Five Solas that Piper claims to believe in, namely "Sola Scriptura".
"Let me tell you about a most wonderful experience I had early Monday morning, March 19, 2007, a little after six o’clock. God actually spoke to me. There is no doubt that it was God. I heard the words in my head just as clearly as when a memory of a conversation passes across your consciousness. The words were in English, but they had about them an absolutely self-authenticating ring of truth. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that God still speaks today."
Piper also advocates the spiritual gifts of 1 Cor. 12 including prophecy. Knowing Piper's penchant for redefining words (not the least of which is "hedonism"), and playing fast and lose with Scripture (he finds "enjoyment" in verses about reading the Word to know Christ--as if those verses support his hedonism, which they don't), given that he was indoctrinated at Fuller Theological Seminary, a bastion of Word of Faith demonic doctrines and practices, given that he's previously endorsed the Charismatic gifts and one of WOF's earliest and biggest teachers, John Wimber (see above), there is no way Piper didn't mean for prophecy to be anything other than the gift of prophecy early in the New Testament churches. So when Piper joins Word of Faith pastor Christine Cain at the Passion conferences, or endorses Charismatic Matt Chandler (he had a "vision" from God, and has been on TBN three times in the last few years), or endorses Mark Driscoll who is also Charismatic (has had pornographic visions, it's not surprising nor new. This is not an "anomaly" as some have suggested. This is who John Piper is; what he's always held to and experienced.
Go here and here for more examples of Piper's charismaticism. His view has been consistent as a Charismatic.