A Little Test of Truth

Do you agree or disagree with the following quotes by famous "Christians"? Do you have any ideo who said these? Take the test:

1.“I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions.”



2. One day you will stand before God, and he will do an audit of your life, a final exam, before you enter eternity.… God won’t ask about your religious background or doctrinal views.”

3.I have known many people who believe in the Messiah of Jesus, regardless of what religion they are, because they believe in him. It’s about a relationship, not a religion. You’ve heard this many times.

4. I think it’s possible for a regenerate person to have no conscious beliefs at all.

5. Is it possible to be saved without knowing about the Resurrection of Christ? Sure.

6. Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ.

7. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

8. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived –Billy Graham to Robert Schuller

9. “Can a person be saved without knowledge of the resurrection of Christ?” “Don’t be shocked by my answer, but yes…to this reason: IF the work of Christ has been explained to someone and they put their faith in Him based upon their faith and trust in that work for his salvation, but is not aware of the resurrection…then, yes. I believe that person can be in a state of grace. Now, can a person know about the resurrection, reject it and be saved? NO! But a person doesn’t have to have a perfect knowledge of the work of Christ to be justified.”

10. Therefore state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved. But to be saved, we know, is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death, and the devil, and to enter into the kingdom of Christ, and to live with Him forever.

11. Thus it appears what a great, excellent thing Baptism is, which delivers us from the jaws of the devil and makes us God's own, suppresses and takes away sin, and then daily strengthens the new man; and is and remains ever efficacious until we pass from this estate of misery to eternal glory.

12.Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."

________

The first three are from Rick Warren.
4 &5 are from Dr. John Frame
6-8 are from Billy Graham
#9 is R.C. Sproul's
10-11 are Martin Luther's Larger Catechism
12 is from the Roman Catholic Catechism

Now, are any of these optional to the Truth? Would you be willing to give up any of these men for the sake of God's True? Or will you defend your favorite Christian instead of Truth?

RC Sproul Apparently Thinks Salvation Without the Resurrection Proclaimed is Possible

2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. A few years ago, I had occassion to confront Matt Slick with his view of a Universalist being saved as a Universalist. What was the foundation for his view basically, was that he himself had no idea that Jesus Christ the Resurrected Lord rose from the dead until two full years after he was "saved". So if he could be saved not knowing Jesus was resurrected, then certainly a Universalist could. To support his view he went to man--the Westminister Confession of Faith as well as quoting Dr. John Frame. In an email exchange posted at Reflections, Frame reiterrated that he holds to that view as well. After all, he reasons, Abraham nor any of the O.T. prophets knew that the Christ would be called Jesus and would be resurrected. Therefore its possible and maybe even probably today. Except the little fact that Jesus not only has already come, but indeed died and rose from the dead "according to the Scriptures" as well as the fact we have the completed revelation of the Gospel and salvation and Scripture. All this to say, that Slick and Frame are not the only ones on this horrid, resurrectionless gospel bandwagon. Now it seems RC Sproul's holding to it. Yes, Sproul, the "theologian" Reformers (and some non-Reformers) love to read and quote has decided that a person can be saved not believing in the Resurrected Lord. The article is here. In part it says:

As Pam and I were sitting through the Ministry Partner Q&A session at the Ligonier National Conference last week, listening to various people pose their questions to R.C. Sproul, a gentleman stepped up to one of the microphones and asked the following question:

“Can a person be saved without knowledge of the resurrection of Christ?” To which Dr. Sproul made the following reply: “Don’t be shocked by my answer, but yes…to this reason: IF the work of Christ has been explained to someone and they put their faith in Him based upon their faith and trust in that work for his salvation, but is not aware of the resurrection…then, yes. I believe that person can be in a state of grace. Now, can a person know about the resurrection, reject it and be saved? NO! But a person doesn’t have to have a perfect knowledge of the work of Christ to be justified.”

What?! What work of Jesus is ever explained APART from the Resurrection? Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness." 23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. Jesus clearly taught about His death and resurrection and even used O.T. Scripture to demonstrat He is the fulfillment of them. Paul and Peter did this as well (see verses below). Scripture says there is only ONE (count 'em, ONE) gospel: Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 2Ti 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! 1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 1Co 15:15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 1Co 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. The ONLY Gospel that saves is one which proclaims Christ Jesus as Lord (Master,Owner, Sovereign) and RESURRECTED. Without the resurrection of Christ, He is merely a nice guy who died on a cross, but certainly isn't God nor Lord. One cannot have a Lord without Him being the RESURRECTED Lord. His deity demands BOTH. Jesus continually taught of Himself from the O.T., including His resurrection. See Matt. 22:29-32; John 5:28-29 (about all are resurrected);both Jesus and Moses taught of the resurrection (Luke 20:34-38). In case that wasn't enough to show that its not optional to NOT believe about Jesus Christ as HE taught (and Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms), here's an exchange Jesus had with a dear saint who truly recognized Jesus' Lordship and loved Him dearly (I think she gets way too much of a bad rap): Joh 11:23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Joh 11:24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" So this is the question to all you Reformers out there: Do you? Do you REALLY believe Rom. 10:9-10? Or is that just a mere intellectual philosophical football to throw around as an optional belief? Is Jesus Christ Kurios or NOT? Is what Scripture taught re: salvation OPTIONAL? Act 4:1 And as they were speaking to the people, the priests and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees came upon them, 2greatly annoyed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead. Act 4:33 And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." It was because of proclaiming the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, that Paul was put on trial (Acts 23:6;24:14-15).The resurrection proves Jesus to be God the Son. If He is not declared to be such, then people don't know and aren't saved. They might be trusting a "good teacher" but its not the Son of God--God the Son: Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, Even in our baptism we proclaim His resurrection, and look to the future of being like the resurrected Lord: Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. Scripturally, all new believers are baptized. So not only was the gospel they believed in one about the Risen Lord, but their baptize also portrayed Him as Resurrected. There is no way a new believer would not know for 6 months or two years after "being saved" that HE is not Risen from the Dead just as HE said. Again, to have a gospel void of the Resurrection of Christ Jesus, is to have NO gospel at all. That means no salvation. I'll end with this: Any Reformer who slams Billy Graham or Rick Warren has no right to do so if they too, hold to this false gospel Frame and Sproul proclaim. The damnable error is in their own camp. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a gospel nor be saved without hearing of the RESURRECTED LORD Jesus Christ. Period.

AWANA Continues On the Road to Spiritual Disaster

Typical of any movement, the Ecumenical/Emergent Church/New Age Movement is continuing to zero in our children. AWANA is one such avenue.

I reported over a year ago AWANA's loss of biblical theology---now it continues to get worse.

Here is a snippet of the latest report from Lighthousetrailsresearch group on AWANA. TAKE HEED! Do NOT compromise Truth for the sake of keeping little children busy for a couple of hours each week. WE CAN DO BETTER THAN OFFER AWANA TO OUR CHILDREN. God demands purity of doctrine as well as lives, folks!

Deu 12:3 You shall tear down their altars and dash in pieces their pillars and burn their Asherim with fire. You shall chop down the carved images of their gods and destroy their name out of that place. 4 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way.

Exo 34:13 You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

The report says in part:

For Awana to include Ken Blanchard's teachings into its organization, shows that the situation is quite serious. Blanchard has been promoting eastern-style meditators for over twenty years, and to this day is still doing so. In addition, he is a board member for the occultic Hoffman [Quadrinity] Institute. Blanchard participated in the Hoffman Process and said it made his spirituality come alive. We believe this experience he had through Hoffman is similar to what Blanchard refers to in his Lead Like Jesus book, when he says people who "quiet their mind[s]" during the Lead Like Jesus Encounter have "powerful experience[s]." This means that now children and families in Awana could possibly wind up with the same experience.

Blanchard, who has been a professing Christian since the 1980s, wrote the foreword for a 2001 book titled What Would Buddha Do at Work?. In the book, Blanchard said:
"Buddha points to the path and invites us to begin our journey to enlightenment. I ... invite you to begin your journey to enlightened work."

Some people may not understand why we write this report about Awana. After all, they have done some wonderful things for children. But that is the very reason we do issue this report - we do not want to see Awana sell out to the fast growing apostasy of contemplative spirituality and the New Age; and because we care about children, we speak up. With more and more public schools teaching kids to meditate and do yoga, and with more and more Christian schools bringing in emerging leaders like Rob Bell (through his Noomas and his book Velvet Elvis), millions of children are now placed in harm's way by learning meditative techniques that will possibly take them into altered states and demonic realms. We hope Awana leadership will reconsider their position on contemplative/spiritual formation for the sake of children and their parents. And if you have children in the program, please use extreme caution in light of these new developments.

Let us leave you with this sobering thought: Sue Monk Kidd was at one time a conservative Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher. She was led down the road to apostasy (i.e., worshiping the goddess Sophia) through the practice of contemplative prayer after someone handed her a book by Thomas Merton, the same Thomas Merton who is endorsed and quoted in the Awana book, Perspectives on Children's Spiritual Formation.

Full article here.

Psychology Debunked --Scripture and the Holy Spirit Are Enough for Mental and Spiritual Health

I just discovered a website dealing with the myths of Psychology called "Psychology Debunked." From what I can tell, it seems pretty solid, although I would like to see what they believe specifically about Jesus Christ and Scripture. It appears most of the site is showing the lack of any evidence of the claims of psychology and its medications, providing reports, studies, and news articles to read. Interesting information to begin with:


Did You Know...

Mental disorders are NOT medical/physical conditions like cancer or diabetes? Every mental disorder is merely a list of observable behaviors given a label and voted into existence by the APA Board.

No one can objectively prove you have a mental disorder? Even the APA President admits that no lab test exists to prove the existence of depression, ADHD, bipolar, and every other mental disorder--no brain scan, no blood test, nothing.

There is no reason to take a pill for a mental disorder, like you would for true medical/physical conditions? The chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain theory has never been proven to cause mental disorders, despite popular belief and drug company marketing. See the News page.

Psychiatric drugs CAUSE chemical imbalances in the brain by disrupting normal brain chemicals? Long-term use can cause permanent brain and organ damage.

The FDA now admits antidepressants and ADHD drugs can CAUSE violent and suicidal behavior in children and adults? It is well-documented that most school shooters and baby killers over the last two decades were on psychiatric drugs. See the News page.

Mental health screening, labeling and drugging of children is in almost every state in America? School screening programs like TeenScreen label normal children with mental disorders, leading to dangerous psychiatric drugging.

Over time, more people improve without psychotherapy than with it?

Every major psychological theory is anti-Christian at its core?

Unquote.

I would highly recommend an out-of-print book, "The Danger of Self Love" by Paul Brownback to get you started on the dangers of psychology and where it came from. Its a wonderful small book, still timely for today, thirty-odd years after its original publication.

Too many professing Christians have a low view of Scripture and therefore they have a low view of God, and have instead elevated man's wordly "wisdom" in Its place. In short, professing Christians (including pastors) have exchange the Truth for a lie, believing that the Holy Spirit and Scripture are NOT sufficient for all things pertaining to life and godliness.


Jam 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.
Jam 3:14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth.
Jam 3:15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
Jam 3:16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.

Anyone struggling with worry/anxiety, depression, etc. should avail themselves of the Bible which speaks on how to have a healthy spiritual life:


Phi 4:5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand;
Phi 4:6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
Phi 4:7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Phi 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

This is the surest way to having the peace of God which WILL guard our hearts and MINDS in Christ Jesus.

If Scripture is perfect and all true, and it is, then these commands WILL benefit the believer and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ.


2Pe 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 2Pe 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
2Pe 1:6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
2Pe 1:7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

Better late than never: confronting the errors of C. Michael Patton, TTP, and Reclaiming The Mind

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,

1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1Co 1:27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;

1Co 2:1 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

*****************

Back in March 2007, both Debi and I did some research on C. Michael Patton and his Reclaiming The Mind/The Theological Program programs (they are under Chuck Swindoll's church, Stonebriar Community Church where apparently Patton used to be a pastor). He and his group open up rooms on Paltalk (a widely used voice/chat program online) where they discusse topics and talk to so-called "scholars". There is a lot wrong with Patton's theology/methodology and we have discussed that here.

For some reason, James White recently caught wind of Patton and commented on some things he has said, specifically about how Patton does not believe we can be certain about Truth nor can we be totally confident in it. (For the Dividing Line discussion by James White and C Michael Patton calling in to talk with White go here.)In fact Patton sounds a lot like Joel Osteen who was on Larry King Live, saying 48 times withint 15 minutes how he "didn't know" or "doesn't know" or "I don't know". Patton also admits his lack of knowing much. Makes one wonder why he even bothers with his "Parchment and Pen" blog or Paltalk rooms.

James White takes several of the points Patton made here. There's much to be concerned about Patton, but nothing new if one has read any of Patton's other musings.

Patton was invited to called into the show, which he did.

While denouncing (sort of) post-modernism, he turns right around and uses that very "we can't REALLY know truth" thinking, hence the several times he says he doesn't know something (both in his blog and in the phone conversation).

Patton repeats VERY often "the fullness of the gospel" but never really clearly defines it.

He contradicts himself left and right, making little sense, trying to find agreement with White, yet one is left wondering what exactly he DOES believe. Considering Patton's view and use of the "Irenic method of apologetics" (supposedly "peaceful" whatever that means), as well as his view that Truth isn't clearly knowable so we can't be so arrogant as to think we CAN say we know it, Patton's claim that he's in line with most of what White believes seems to be untrue.

What I did appreciate about White's comments (and there are things I really do disagree with him on), he starts off with the correct belief that we cannot rely on philosophy to proclaim truth, which is what Patton does. White says its through the declaration of the Gospel that God saves.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge," 21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

Patton believes in "building planks" one at a time with unbelievers. Scripture is replete with outright "in your face" proclamations of "your sinning against a Holy God and earning hell" type of messages---not very pagan-friendly. Patton wants to steer us away from Paul's example of exhortation in Galatians and rather wants us to use a Mars Hill approach (interesting how that in itself is quite Po-Mo/Emergent of him). Except that Paul again unwaveringly addresses their idolatory and need for a savior--the Gospel --and some ended up believing. James White clearly demonstrated this point well by noting how Paul talked about turning from idols to the Living God--this is called repentance. Patton does not call for repentance. He calls for gradual change that won't hurt the Flesh.

Patton believes in the infalliblilty of the apostles.:

"Paul was an Apostle who carried the authority of an Apostle. This included infallibility in certain areas. Both of these you and I don’t have. Therefore, we cannot approach these issues with the degree of certainty that Paul had. Even if we can have a high degree of certainty about certain passages and theological issues, this does not mean that we are infallible and authoritative as an Apostle."

It appears he's already fallen for Rome's first lie: infallibility of leaders.

Patton says in his blog: "While I do find some egg on our face with regards to the Pope’s recent declaration (or redeclaration) of the illegitimacy of the Protestant churches, I still contend that Catholicism can be interpreted differently and the situation can progress."

That's probably one thing I agree with, but not for his reasons. He still sees Rome as legitimate but without the "full gospel" apparently. I believe Rome and those who came from her and still hold to some of her dogmas are not biblical at all and should be avoided.

Other notes I made when Patton called in:

Patton :

*denies Solo Scriptura. He said: To say "if its not in the Bible then I just won't believe it" is just not true. (51:10). We all have authorities outside the Bible. He's going against what he just said though, about misrepresenting ourselves and the otherside when we get so confident or overly confident.

*can't anathamatize a whole gospel...people and churches like RCC have parts of the true gospel.(57:24)

More....this is a close transcript I wrote as I was listening. Hear the actual conversation, though:

W - how does Rome's gospel differ from the Judaizers since Paul anathamatized them as a group, not just elements? Mary, eucharist, --can hold to these whole-heartedly and yet there's enough gospel there to get them saved? Is that what you are saying?

P - Well, in a sense. Again, its an issue of perspective; how much can a person be wrong and still fall at the feet of Christ and beg forgiveness? They can embrace falsehoods (we need to educate them on the "fulness of the gospel")--look at the Corinthians. There were some brothers who thought there were some idols that were still something and Paul said treat them as weaker brothers. They need to grow.

W - Is there a diff. between having some wrong notions about some things and a outright rejection, knowingly deny core parts of the Gospel? The Judaizers were denying faith alone to save. They clearly believed in Christ to save (Gal. 5:2). They fell at the foot of the God-man. But they added to it. Paul said if they do, they are anathama. If they did, then do you see Rome doing this? They after all knew the Gospel proclaimed to them.

P - Yes there's a diff. Its much worse. Rebellion. Doubting your salvation is falling from grace--from the fullness of the gospel, not actual salvation. We're all at different spectrums on this. In heaven we will know. Don't broad brush everyone. Not defending RCC. We can learn from their ecclesiology and its intentions. We can learn from EO's view on redemption. (1:04) We all to some degree lack the fullness of the gospel.

W - How can Rome's gospel can save and Judiazer's did not?
P - I don't know. Judaizer's couldn't save. He's not sure about a lot of these things. Not sure. Parable between the sinner and pharisee. The sinner didn't know his status before God when he left. We are outside looking in.
Keeping on with our works after being justified is what many of us do, that's why we need someone to bring the fullness of the Gospel.
W - the sinner threw self solely on Christ. the Pharisee was "righteous" but was by works. That was the point....God sees the heart. Gal. 3 Paul says you add one thing, circum,. Christ will be of no benefit to you. What does that mean?
P- you have fallen from grace. We pick up the burden again.
W - so in both situations they are both forgiven??
P - paul is correcting. He might not know they are saved either (the Judaizers).
W - So you don't see a contrast between Gal. 5 where Paul says you have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace, but WE ?
P - yes a radical contrast. Fallen from grace is radical. He's assuming the Judiazers are believers, but might not be (see Hebrews). If you question your salvation maybe you aren't.
W - back to Rome to apply, a person fully knowlegable of what it teaches in denying sola fide, complete work of Christ and eucharist, temporal punishments, purgatory, etc, treasury of merit....because they can know this and hold to this gospel, but still be saved by that gospel or in spite of it?
P - saved in spite of it. What's the bare essential? Protestanism lacks the fullness of the gospel in re: to eschatology. Not in the sense of pre-mil etc. but in the sense we are very gnostic in our understanding of salvation. Want to escape this body and float in the clouds. Lack of understanding the full gospel. EO has this to a greater degree.
W - deny an essential part of the gospel, can your faith be a saving faith?
P - no, not at all
W- Sola Fide is not essential part of the gospel?
P - in and of itself it is not.
W - An RCer rejecting sola fide, as Rome has not only denied but taught works, does that person have eternal life?
P - I would say yes they do, but they have a much harder, like the Corinthians. They were polytheist Christians (1:15:40). They need the full gospel. They can, though.I'm not saying anybody does.
W - should we call them out of Rome?
P- yes we should be calling them out of Roman doctrine of soteriology. Our 'free church mentality" = no authoritative structure like they have, we end up with Benny Hinn.
W - My church would not recognize Hinn as a brother nor let him in. We HAVE authoritative structure. The only type is what is given is the church leaders.

Now "Christians" are Apologizing to Homosexuals For Calling Them to Repentance?

Former Leaders of Ex-Gay Ministry Apologize for 'Bringing Harm'
Thursday, June 28, 2007

In part it says:

"The former leaders of the interdenominational Christian organization Exodus International said Wednesday they had all, over time, become disillusioned with the group's ideas and concerned about what they described as the wrenching human toll of such gay conversion efforts."

"Some who heard our message were compelled to try to change an integral part of themselves, bringing harm to themselves and their families," the three, including former Exodus co-founder Michael Bussee, said in a joint written statement presented at a news conference in Hollywood. "Although we acted in good faith, we have since witnessed the isolation, shame, fear and loss of faith that this message creates." '

"Exodus' president, Alan Chambers, said he disagreed with its critics and the ministry's methods have helped many people, including him."

"Exodus is here for people who want an alternative to homosexuality,"
Chambers said by phone.

"There are thousands of people like me who have overcome this. I think there's room for more than one opinion on this subject, and giving people options isn't dangerous."

"Bussee left Exodus in 1979 after he fell in love with a man who was a fellow ex-gay counselor with the group. He speaks out frequently against ex-gay therapies."

"Chambers, who is married and has children, said he and other current Exodus officials are careful to warn those who seek help that such a path is not easy.Sexual orientation, he said, "isn't a light switch that you can switch on and off."

Wow.

The first thing that went through my mind is how sick and twisted this is, but also how much this "apology" sounds like the one Richard Mouw of Fuller Theological Cemetary gave to the LDS leaders in Salt Lake City a few years ago:

"Let me state it clearly. We evangelicals have sinned against you," Mouw said, noting a tendency among some Christians to distort the truth about the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "We have told you what you believe without making a sincere effort first of all to ask you what you believe." Mouw went on to explain that "we have even on occasion demonized you, weaving conspiracy theories about what the LDS community is 'really' trying to accomplish in the world. And even at our best, we have — and this is true of both of our communities — we have talked past each other, setting forth oversimplified and distorted accounts of what the other group believes." Latter-day Saints have often responded in kind to such actions, he said, lamenting, "Friendship with each other has not come easily for our two communities." - The Desert News.

Interestingly Apologetics Index has an email discussion of Keith Walker of Evidence Ministries with Mouw on this very thing, and someone made the observation that his (Mouw's) apology to the Mormons sounded like the one at the Promise Keeper's conference where the white folks apologized to the black folks for slavery. And on it goes...unjustified guilt for a sin one did not committ by an ecumenical group. Keith Walker makes some very good counterpoints to Richard Mouw's erroneous thinking.

Obviously the question is: why are so many people apologizing to those who hate God for declaring the Truth? Do we see this in Scripture? Did Paul apologize to the Greek philosophers on Mars Hill? Did Peter apologize to the Jews on Pentecost? Did Jesus apologize to the Pharisees? Did John the Baptist?

Here are my observations regarding the news article on the ex-Exodus leader's comments and that of the current leader:

#1 Interesting this has come out (pardon the pun) after Al Mohler said, " The discovery of a biological basis for homosexuality would be of great pastoral significance, allowing for a greater understanding of why certain persons struggle with these particular sexual temptations," back in March 2007.

Well Romans 1 gives us the exact reason why. See the passage of Scripture below. Mohler and these others seem to be man-centered, thus looking to man for answers to a spiritual issue which may be exactly why the former leaders of Exodus International as well as the current leadership want to ease off the offense of calling men (and women) to repent of their wicked ways. Yes, God considers homosexuality and any sexual immorality (just to name a few) wicked, sinful, and God-hating (see Romans 3 for the descripture of Man outside of Christ).

#2 We ARE to repent of our sin, including homosexuality. The former Exodus men in this article are saying basically, in other words, that repentance from homosexuality brings harm. God says its part of salvation through Christ. How is that harmful? They are perhaps looking at the persecution of a saint maybe, but human harm for the sake of Christ is GOOD.

Mat 3:2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because He has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom He has appointed; and of this He has given assurance to all by raising Him from the dead."

Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Mat 11:20 Then He began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent.

Separation from the world? You bet! Look:

1Pe 4:3 The time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry. 4 With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you; 5 but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

Joh 15:18 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Look at the context though--fruit of the Spirit with loving the brothers as one of them: Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. 21 But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.

#3 "Bussee left Exodus in 1979 after he fell in love with a man who was a fellow ex-gay counselor with the group. " Well, I saw this one coming. He is under God's judgment per Rom. 1 and 2 Cor. 6 and 1Tim 1. This is truly a spiritual issue.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

#4 "Sexual orientation, he said, "isn't a light switch that you can switch on and off." '

1) We can say "no" to ungodliness through Him who gives us grace, 2) we ARE to "put OFF the old man" and "put ON the New Man". None of this IS possible really, without the Person of the Holy Spirit working in us to will AND to do HIS good pleasure.

Rom 13:13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Eph 4:19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!-- 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

Phi 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Scripture is clear: we ARE to say "no" to ungodliness and to put OFF the old Self and put ON the new Self which is created in and by Christ Jesus to HIS glory. This putting off includes ALL sin. This IS a battle. We need the Amour of God which Eph. 6 describes. How utterly pitiful that any Christian, let alone one that seeks to help homosexuals, would disregard such clear Scripture. If God has commanded this, then He will give us the grace and power to do it.

Perhaps both sides of this issue re: Exodus, should consider this:

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.15 Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

Quit riding the fence, Christians. God is black and white on this issue. Fear HIM rather than Man.

Rick Warren: Why He Is A False Teacher

Have you ever had the notion that something just wasn't right with Rick Warren and his Purpose Driven stuff, but couldn't really put your finger on it?

I have. And after doing a lot of reading and research, I hope that this summary along with the quotes and sources, can help you nail Warren's PDL/PDC/40 Days of Purpose jello to the wall. His error is often subtle and at times its not what he says (although there's plenty of that) but what he doesn't say, as well as frequently contradicting his own statements, that makes him a false teacher. And you might note that his whole PDL line was to get the world ready for his P.E.A.C.E plan. Go Purpose Driven Life site:

The Times ( London) - “ Business and political leaders across America are turning to Rick Warren for guidance.”

TIME - “Movie stars and political leaders aren't the only ones turning to Rick Warren for spiritual guidance. Millions of people – from NFL and LPGA players to corporate executives to high school students to prison inmates – meet regularly to discuss The Purpose Driven Life.”

Notice they aren't discussing Scripture. They aren't turning to the Lord Jesus Christ. No, they are getting their ears tickled by a man who's selling them the Lorel line, "because you're worth it". And you know what? He learned it from marketing guru Peter Drucker, and New Age heretic, Robert Schuller.

Scripture says, however, in contrast to the world loving Jesus Christ's disciples:

Luk 6:26 "Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets."

Joh 15:18 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

The "Gospel" of Rick Warren

article “The Gospel: A Method or a Message? How the Purpose Driven Life Obscures the Gospel”.

Quote:

Rick Warren begins the first day of his journey by saying, “It’s not about you” (Warren: 17). Yet the entire book “feels” like it is about you and reads like self-help literature. He dedicates the book to “you” on the first page after the copyright information and uses the pronoun “you” continually throughout the book. Consider the following from day eight:

You were planned for God’s pleasure. The moment you were born into the world God was there as an unseen witness, smiling at your birth. He wanted you alive, and your arrival gave him great pleasure. God did not need to create you, but he chose to create you for his own enjoyment. . . . Bringing enjoyment to God, living for his pleasure, is the first purpose of your life. When you fully understand this truth, you will never again have a problem with feeling insignificant. It proves your worth. If you are that important to God, and he considers you valuable enough to keep with him for eternity, what greater significance could you have? (Warren: 63).

“God won’t ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?” (Warren: 34).

Mysticism

Mysticism usually goes hand and hand with pietism wherever it exists. When people promote “secrets for the deeper life,” they generally claim to have received them by some divine revelation. These secrets often involve prayer techniques that help someone hear from God. True to form, Warren offers these in Practicing the Presence of God (Warren: 88) where he states, “practicing the presence of God is a skill” (Warren: 89). This mystical approach is borrowed from some versions of Roman Catholicism.

Warren also promotes “breath prayers” which are endless repetitions of short phrases (Warren: 89). Jesus forbids this type of prayer: “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition, as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words” (Matthew 6:7). It is a pagan practice that has the effect of shutting down the mind. Warren suggests that God will share His secrets with us if we follow Warren’s techniques (Warren: 91). He promises that the meditative techniques he promotes will “let God speak to you” (Warren: 91). He says, “In the next chapter we will see four more secrets of cultivating a friendship with God” (Warren: 91).

Warren: don't bother studying Scripture

Rick Warren makes an amazing claim. He writes, “The last thing many believers need today is to go to another Bible study. They already know far more than they are putting into practice” (Warren: 231)

Later in his book we learn why Warren warns against Bible study for those who are not perfect: he has an alternative! “I strongly urge you to gather a small group of friends and form a Purpose-Driven Life Reading Group to review these chapters on a weekly basis” (Warren: 307).

Warren also says, “After you have gone through this book together as a group, you might consider studying other purpose-driven life studies that are available for classes and groups” (Warren: 307). The message of the gospel has been replaced with the method of Rick Warren. The Bible has been supplanted by the wisdom of man.

End quote.

Anyone who dissuades you from studying Scripture is a false teacher and doesn't love the truth, nor the brethern. Our love should be God's Word and His children, helping them grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture alone is living and active, held above all things by God (along with His name), and it alone is God-breathed, prefect, and able to teach, rebuke, and ready us to grow up in Him, able to distingquish good from evil.

For verse by verse comparison of Warren’s use of several different versions of the Bible compared to a trusted real translation like the NASB, go to DeWaay's article here.

Error in what ISN’T proclaimed

*DeWaay echoes what we’ve said: error also comes by way of what one doesn’t say:

“Warren’s explanation of God leaves out many important truths and emphasizes those qualities that make God feel close and safe. This does not result in a full, Biblical understanding of God. You will never hear about God’s wrath against sin from Warren. You will never hear the warnings in the Bible about God’s coming judgment. You will not learn about God’s holiness from Warren. You will not hear passages like this: “See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven” (Hebrews 12:25).”

Ken Silva has information here.

*Warren spoke at National Pastors Convention 2004 which includes women pastors.

Warren shares the platform with heretics

*Rick Warren spoke at the Global Day of Prayer: May 15 where he spoke in Dallas, included T.D. Jakes. Jakes rejects the Trinity and is a Word of Faith leaders.

Rick Warren lied about his Syrian trip

Rick Warren was caught lying about his promotion of a “Christian tolerant” Syria by World Net Daily news organization; Warren shows video of Syrian clip he earlier denied.

*WND earlier denied.

PDL for Roman Catholics

Warren believes RCC is a mere denomination of biblical churches. There’s PDL just for Roman Catholics at PDL site.

Warren supports Barack Obama, a pro-abortion politician and had him in his pulpit at Saddleback.


What Rick Warren suggests dealing with dissenters of his programs:

“One of the books [Dan Southerland] sold on Rick Warren's website teaches pastors how to deal with Purpose Driven dissenters. The author characterizes those who resist the transition to the Purpose Driven franchise as "leaders from hell" who are misguided, and have evil motives or are just unwilling to change because of their being caught in traditions. The message is clear - they are incompatible with the new church scheme, and therefore they must go. But some of the victims of the Purpose Driven scheme are speaking out, and it's clear that many of them simply don't fit the trouble-maker profile described by such a book.”



All is not well with PDC's

“The WSJ [Wall Street Journal, "Veneration Gap - A Popular Strategy For Church Growth Splits Congregants," written by WSJ reporter Suzanne Sataline, 9-5-06] article accurately showed that "Congregations nationwide have split or expelled members who fought the [Purpose Driven] changes," and that Purpose Driven training for pastors and leaders meant "help[ing] them leave if they don't stop objecting" and "when those congregants join a new church ... pastors should call their new minister and suggest that the congregants be barred from any leadership role."”

Warren pastors Rupert Murdoch, promoter of pornography according to Chris Rosebrough, head of the Christian Accountability Network. "As a Christian, Murdoch is committing an egregious sin by owning, expanding and profiting from pornographic channels, and Rick Warren, his pastor, has a biblical duty to call Murdoch to repentance and/or put him out of the church."

The ties between Warren and Murdoch go beyond the spiritual. Murdoch also owns Zondervan, the company that published Warren's explosive bestseller "The Purpose Driven Life."

In a Nov. 12, 2006, Orange County Register story, Warren was asked about pastoring a man who publishes tabloids featuring topless women. He responded: "I don't have to agree with 100 percent of what another person does in order to work with them on the 20 percent that we do agree on."

The article also points out Murdoch was among the first patrons to support Warren's PEACE plan, contributing $2 million.

So much for biblical doctrine and purity. Clearly Warren won't slap the hand that feeds him.

Peace, peace when there is no peace

His P.E.A.C.E. plan is to get hunger and war eliminated by use of PDL principles. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/globalpeaceplan.htm

To sum up:

If Rick Warren is teaching a “gospel” that is void of essential truth...
If Rick Warren is promoting Easter Mysticism…
If Rick Warren promotes Roman Catholicism…
If Rick Warren shares the platform with homosexuals…
If Rick Warren shares the pulpit with Word of Faith teachers…
If Rick Warren embraces and promotes the Emergent Church Movement….
If Rick Warren lied about his Syrian trip…
If Rick Warren believes in women pastors…
If Rick Warren dissuades his readers from studying Scripture but instead read more PDL…
If Rick Warren distorts and twists Bible verses by taking them out of context….

then the man is a false teacher. 2 Peter 3: 16b “ There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”

Christian Men Slaughtered by Turkish Muslims for Christ: What the media won't tell you

“A letter to the Global Church from The Protestant Church of Smyrna

Dear friends,This past week has been filled with much sorrow. Many of you have heard by now of our devastating loss here in an event that took place in Malatya, a Turkish province 300 miles northeast of Antioch, the city where believers were first called Christians (Acts 11:26).

On Wednesday morning, April 18, 2007, 46 year old German missionary and father of three Tilman Geske prepared to go to his office, kissing his wife goodbye taking a moment to hug his son and give him the priceless memory, “Goodbye, son. I love you.”Tilman rented an office space from Zirve Publishing where he was preparing notes for the new Turkish Study Bible. Zirve was also the location of the Malatya Evangelist Church office. A ministry of the church, Zirve prints and distributes Christian literature to Malatya and nearby cities in Eastern Turkey.

In another area of town, 35 year old Pastor Necati Aydin, father of two, said goodbye to his wife, leaving for the office as well. They had a morning Bible Study and prayer meeting that some other believers in town would also be attending.

Ugur Yuksel likewise made his way to the Bible study.None of these three men knew that what awaited them at the Bible study was the ultimate testing and application of their faith, which would conclude with their entrance into glory to receive their crown of righteousness from Christ and honor from all the saints awaiting them in the Lord’s presence.

On the other side of town, ten young men all under 20 years old put into place final arrangements for their ultimate act of faith, living out their love for Allah and hatred of infidels who they felt undermined Islam.

On Resurrection Sunday, five of these men had been to a by-invitation-only evangelistic service that Pastor Necati and his men had arranged at a hotel conference room in the city. The men were known to the believers as “seekers.” No one knows what happened in the hearts of those men as they listened to the gospel. Were they touched by the Holy Spirit? Were they convicted of sin? Did they hear the gospel in their heart of hearts? Today we only have the beginning of their story.

These young men, one of whom is the son of a mayor in the Province of Malatya, are part of a tarikat, or a group of “faithful believers” in Islam. Tarikat membership is highly respected here; it’s like a fraternity membership. In fact, it is said that no one can get into public office without membership in a tarikat.

These young men all lived in the same dorm, all preparing for university entrance exams.The young men got guns, breadknives, ropes and towels ready for their final act of service to Allah. They knew there would be a lot of blood.

They arrived in time for the Bible Study, around 10 o’clock.They arrived, and apparently the Bible Study began. Reportedly, after Necati read a chapter from the Bible the assault began. The boys tied Ugur, Necati, and Tilman’s hands and feet to chairs and as they videoed their work on their cellphones, they tortured our brothers for almost three hours*

[Details of the torture--* Tilman was stabbed 156 times, Necati 99 times and Ugur’s stabs were too numerous to count. They were disemboweled, and their intestines sliced up in front of their eyes. They were emasculated and watched as those body parts were destroyed. Fingers were chopped off, their noses and mouths and anuses were sliced open. Possibly the worst part was watching as their brothers were likewise tortured. Finally, their throats were sliced from ear to ear, heads practically decapitated.]

....The Church in Turkey responded in a way that honored God as hundreds of believers and dozens of pastors flew in as fast as they could to stand by the small church of Malatya and encourage the believers, take care of legal issues, and represent Christians to the media.

When Susanne Tilman expressed her wish to bury her husband in Malatya, the Governor tried to stop it, and when he realized he could not stop it, a rumor was spread that “it is a sin to dig a grave for a Christian.” In the end, in an undertaking that should be remembered in Christian history forever, the men from the church in Adana (near Tarsus), grabbed shovels and dug a grave for their slain brother in an un-tended hundred year old Armenian graveyard.

Ugur was buried by his family in an Alevi Muslim ceremony in his hometown of Elazig, his believing fiance watching from the shadows as his family and friends refused to accept in death the faith Ugur had so long professed and died for.

Necati’s funeral took place in his hometown of Izmir, the city where he came to faith. The darkness does not understand the light. Though the churches expressed their forgiveness for the event, Christians were not to be trusted. Before they would load the coffin onto the plane from Malatya, it went through two separate xray exams to make sure it was not loaded with explosives. This is not a usual procedure for Muslim coffins.

Necati’s funeral was a beautiful event. Like a glimpse of heaven, thousands of Turkish Christians and missionaries came to show their love for Christ, and their honor for this man chosen to die for Christ. Necati’s wife Shemsa told the world, “His death was full of meaning, because he died for Christ and he lived for Christ… Necati was a gift from God. I feel honored that he was in my life, I feel crowned with honor. I want to be worthy of that honor.”

Boldly the believers took their stand at Necati’s funeral, facing the risks of being seen publicly and likewise becoming targets. As expected, the anti-terror police attended and videotaped everyone attending the funeral for their future use. The service took place outside at Buca Baptist church, and he was buried in a small Christian graveyard in the outskirts of Izmir.

...Two assistant Governors of Izmir were there solemnly watching the event from the front row. Dozens of news agencies were there documenting the events with live news and photographs. Who knows the impact the funeral had on those watching? This is the beginning of their story as well. Pray for them.

In an act that hit front pages in the largest newspapers in Turkey, Susanne Tilman in a television interview expressed her forgiveness. She did not want revenge, she told reporters. “Oh God, forgive them for they know not what they do,” she said, wholeheartedly agreeing with the words of Christ on Calvary (Luke 23:34).

In a country where blood-for-blood revenge is as normal as breathing, many many reports have come to the attention of the church of how this comment of Susanne Tilman has changed lives. One columnist wrote of her comment, “She said in one sentence what 1000 missionaries in 1000 years could never do.”

...The missionaries in Malatya will most likely move out, as their families and children have become publicly identified as targets to the hostile city. The remaining 10 believers are in hiding. What will happen to this church, this light in the darkness? Most likely it will go underground. Pray for wisdom, that Turkish brothers from other cities will go to lead the leaderless church. Should we not be concerned for that great city of Malatya, a city that does not know what it is doing? (Jonah 4:11)

Please pray for the Church in Turkey. “Don’t pray against persecution, pray for perseverence,” urges Pastor Fikret Bocek.

The Church is better having lost our brothers; the fruit in our lives, the renewed faith, the burning desire to spread the gospel to quench more darkness in Malatya …all these are not to be regretted.

Pray that we stand strong against external opposition and especially pray that we stand strong against internal struggles with sin, our true debilitating weakness.This we know. Christ Jesus was there when our brothers were giving their lives for Him. He was there, like He was when Stephen was being stoned in the sight of Saul of Tarsus.

For the entire story and pictures of these martyrs for Christ Jesus the Lord's glory go here.

I came across two articles today by John MacArthur that struck a cord with me. It seems that the Lord is showing him the same things He is showing me and some other solid Christians. And it is this: those within "conservative Christianity" are NOT proclaiming the true Gospel and that there is a war on the Word of God. Many of these professing Christians, (and increasingly within the Reformed Theology camp) are trying to use reason, logic, and philosophy to convince the unbelievers of God's truth. What they fail to recognize is that spiritual truth can ONLY be spiritually discerned and an unbeliever can't do that for he hasn't got the Spirit of Truth residing within him (1Cor. 2:14).

Not only are many folks relying on their powers of persuasion to open the minds of those who are God's enemies, but the gospel being proclaimed by these same folks, sometimes leave out important aspects of the Gospel: the Resurrection of Christ, and believing and confessing His Lordship (Rom. 10:9-10).

I hope you enjoy these articles (see below: Getting the Gospel Right, and Trustworthy Answers in Untrustworthy Times). They certainly express my thoughts on these issues. You might also enjoy hearing John MacArthur's message on the necessity of believing in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ in order to be saved (1Cor. 15). The transcript for the audio message on the Overview of the Resurrection can be found here.

"If you remove the resurrection of Jesus Christ from Christianity, you don't have Christianity. You literally take the heart out of it. We accept that the resurrection happened by faith, faith in the Scripture, faith that is given to us by the Holy Spirit. We have been convinced by the Holy Spirit that the Bible is true and the Bible says Jesus arose from the dead and that settles that issue. And on the pages of Scripture there is ample convincing evidence." For more go here.

Getting the Gospel Right by John MacArthur

I am amazed at some of the things that have been said and written in recent years about the gospel. I fear that in many circles a different message is replacing the good news of salvation. I’m not talking about the attacks on the gospel from liberal religion or the theology of the cults, but a skewed message that has sprouted from right within conservative evangelicalism.

I have a copy of a training film now being used internationally to teach Christians what they should and should not say when leading someone to Christ. A respected, conservative organization produced the film, but frankly, the warped view of the gospel it presents is appalling.

In the entire half-hour film, there is not one mention of the resurrection. It speaks of forgiveness without defining sin, and it talks of trusting Christ without describing faith. Incredibly, the film counsels believers never to speak to a non-Christian about the lordship of Christ, submission to Him, surrender of the will, forsaking one’s sin, or obeying God. Those truths, according to the film, have no place in the gospel message but should be saved for later, after someone becomes a Christian....

Their desire, I’m sure, is to make clear the biblical truth that salvation may in no way be earned or obtained by man’s effort. Their approach, however, has been to eliminate from the gospel message anything that sounds like a work of righteousness, and to speak only of believing the objective data. They have erased the biblical words repentance, obedience, and submission from the vocabulary of evangelicalism.

Such teaching has taken a heavy toll. Faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him. A person can believe without obeying. Thus faith is robbed of any moral significance, and righteousness becomes optional....

The gospel we present has eternal consequences. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not a trivial matter for theologians to speculate on. It is an issue every lay person must understand and get right.

Here are some questions that need to be answered biblically:

Do we receive Jesus as Lord and Savior, or as Savior only? Some say a person who refuses to obey Christ can still receive Him as Savior. They teach that the gift of eternal life is available by faith even to one who rejects the moral and spiritual demands of Christ. They accuse others of teaching “lordship salvation,” implying that it is novel to suggest that submission is a characteristic of saving faith.

Until relatively recently, however, no one would have dared suggest a person can be saved while stubbornly refusing to bow to Christ’s authority. Nearly all the major biblical passages calling for saving faith refer to Jesus as lord (cf. Acts 2:21, 36; Romans 10:9-10).

Is repentance from sin essential to salvation? Some say that turning from sin is a human work and therefore cannot be part of salvation. To accommodate the biblical call to repentance, they redefine repentance as nothing more than a change of mind about who Jesus is.

Biblically, however, repentance is a total about face—turning away from sin and self and unto God (cf. 1 Thessalonians 1:9). That is no more a result of human effort than faith itself. Nor is it in any sense a pre-salvation work required to prepare a sinner for salvation. Real repentance is inseparable from faith and, like faith, is the work of God in a human heart. It is the response God inevitably generates in the heart of one He is redeeming.

What is faith? Some say faith is merely believing certain facts. One popular Bible teacher says saving faith is nothing more than confidence in the divine offer of eternal life.

Biblically, however, the object of faith is not the divine offer; it is the Person of Jesus Christ. Faith in Him is what saves, not just be¬lieving His promises or accepting facts about Him. Saving faith has to be more than accepting facts. Even demons have that kind of faith (James 2:19).

Believing in Jesus means receiving Him for all that He is (John 1:12). It means both confessing Him as Savior and yielding to Him as Lord. In fact, Scripture often uses the word obedience as a synonym for faith (cf. John 3:36; Acts 6:7; Hebrews 5:9). What is a disciple? In the past hundred years or so, it has become popular to speak of discipleship as a higher level of Christian experience. In the new terminology, a person becomes a believer at salvation; he becomes a disciple later, when he moves past faith to obedience.

Such a view conveniently relegates the difficult demands of Jesus to a post-salvation experience. It maintains that when He challenged the multitudes to deny self, to take up a cross and follow Him (Mark 8:34); to forsake all (Luke 14:33); and to leave father and mother (Matthew 19:29), He was simply asking believers to step up to the second level and become disciples.

But how does that square with Jesus’ own words, “I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Matt 9:13)? The heart of His ministry was evangelism, and those difficult demands are evangelistic appeals.

Every believer is a disciple and vice versa. A careful reading of Acts shows that the word disciple has been a synonym for Christian from the earliest days of the church (cf. 6:1-2, 7; 11:26; 14:20, 22; 15:10).

What is the evidence of salvation? In their zeal to eliminate good works as a requirement for salvation, some have gone to the extreme of arguing that good works are not even a valid evidence of salvation. They teach that a person may be genuinely saved yet never manifest the fruit of salvation—a changed life.
A few have even taken the absurd position that a born-again person may ultimately turn away from Christ into unbelief, deny God, and become an atheist—yet still possess eternal life. One writer invented a term for such people: “unbelieving believers”!

Scripture is clear that a saved person can never be lost. It is equally clear that a genuine Christian will never fall back into total unbelief. That kind of apostasy proves an individual was never really born again (1 John 2:19).

Furthermore, if a person is genuinely saved, his life will change for the better (2 Corinthians 5:17). He is saved “for good works” (Ephesians 2:10), and there is no way he can fail to bring forth at least some of the fruit that characterizes the redeemed (cf. Matthew 7:17). His desires are transformed; he begins to hate sin and love righteousness. He will not be sinless, but the pattern of his life will be decreasing sin and increasing righteousness.

For the full article go here.

Trustworthy Answers in Untrusting Times by John MacArthur

The last fifty years have produced an information explosion unparalleled in human history. Yet with all we have learned and with all the volumes that have been written, modern knowledge has been unable to shed any new light on the most basic spiritual questions facing the human race. That’s exactly the situation the Bible ascribes to mankind in the end times: “always learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7).

Man has solved incredibly difficult problems in the fields of mathematics, astronomy, microbiology, and even space travel. But the true meaning of life stubbornly eludes those whose methods of pursuit are merely rational. They end up totally puzzled about life, death, God, man, sin, heaven, hell, love, joy, and peace.

The problem is that spiritual answers cannot be deduced by human reason alone (1 Corinthians 2:14). It’s not that spiritual truth is irrational or illogical, but human wisdom is defective because it is tainted by man’s sinfulness and unable to perceive the things of God.

Trustworthy Answers from the Unchanging GodThat is why the Bible is so important. It gives us the answers we can’t find on our own. It is God’s Word to mankind. Scripture is divinely revealed truth that fills the vacuum of spiritual ignorance in all of us. Psalm 19 contains a hymn of praise to God for the wonders of His Word. It is also a marvelous lesson about the authority and sufficiency of Scripture to answer all the questions of life.

Perfect AnswersVerse 7 says, “The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul.” “Perfect” comes from a Hebrew word that means comprehensive, or complete. In other words, the Bible contains all the truth that is necessary to transform and restore the human soul.

Thus the Bible offers hope for those weighted down by a sense of their own failure. Because it is perfect truth, it can revive man’s broken soul and offer new life to those defeated by sin and failure. If you are apathetic, Scripture will convict you of sin and show you your real needs. If on the other hand you are crushed with emptiness, guilt, and anxiety, God’s Word contains truth that can transform your soul with new life in Christ.

Certain Answers--

The psalmist goes on: “The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple” (v. 7). Natural intelligence is at best a leap in the dark. Even the most perceptive philosopher will tell you that there is no certainty in human wisdom. At his best, man is totally inadequate in the pursuit of truth.

Not so with Scripture. God’s Word is sure, certain, infallible, inerrant, and totally reliable in every sense. In contrast to human wisdom, which is based on academic pursuit, the Bible can make a simple person wise. What a fantastic promise! Whatever you need to know in life is covered in the Word of God. Study it for yourself. It will tell you how to build lasting friendships, how to develop communication skills, and how to build a solid marriage. All you need is an open mind, a receptive spirit, and an obedient heart....

Verse 9 says, “The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever.” “The fear of the Lord” is parallel to “the law,” “the testimony,” “the precepts,” and “the commandment” (vv. 7-8). It is another of the psalmist’s names for Scripture. More than that, “the fear of the Lord” signifies the sum of man’s response to God’s Word.

The Bible, unlike any other book, endures forever. It is relevant in every generation—never out of date or obsolete. Though it is an ancient document, it never needs another edition. It has been translated to update the language, but for two millennia it has remained the same in content. It speaks to us as pointedly and authoritatively as it ever did to any generation since it was written.

Human philosophies come in and out of style. Every field of science known to man is constantly in a state of flux: changing, growing, discarding one maxim and replacing it with another. But one thing that never changes is the eternal Word of God.

For the complete article go here.

Why I Am No Longer A Republican

Today I have resigned from being a Republican of 19 years. I have found that the GOP has become increasingly liberal, while the Lord has caused me to become more biblical (and no, I haven't arrived and yes, I still have sin I deal with as the Lord convicts me of it by His Spirit and Word).

Here are some of my reasons for registering under "Decline to State" (I cannot find one party that reflects Biblical principles across the board):

I do not believe in:

Voting for “the lesser evil” which IS voting for Evil. I cannot do that while holding Christ Jesus over my name.

Islam is NOT a religion of peace. It is violent. It hates the Only True God. It denies Jesus Christ is God. It denies the Trinity. It denies Scripture. It seeks out blood of all who reject its system and thinking. Convert or Die is NOT peaceful.

Big government

Big spending

Raising taxes

Approval or acceptance of homosexuals

Illegal Immigration

Lying about Illegal immigration amnesty by calling it a “visitor” program

Encouraging illegal activity by giving benefits (free health care, education, etc)

Any type of homosexual “rights” that are different from those that are in the Constitution for EVERY American

Same-sex “marriage” even at the state level

Campaigning for Mexicans in Mexico

Compromising with the Democrats on any issue such as education or health care

What I Believe in:

Fearing God, never man

Trusting God, not man

Pro-life EVEN WHEN THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER is at stake. Either I am pro-life totally or not at all. Either I trust God or I don’t.

Smaller government

Minimal taxes

Backing our soldiers

Enforcement of existing laws; in particular that of illegal immigrants

No hypocrisy in enforcing laws for those in leadership versus the common man

No benefits for non- American citizen

No approval of homosexuals on any level

No same-sex “marriages” or anything “like” it on any level




Principles are what guide me in every situation. My principles are from Scripture. If I make loopholes or exceptions, then they are NOT principles but just opinions. Biblical Doctrine is not optional.

Daring to be a Daniel. He was a man of integrity before God and man. He did not compromise for the sake of his life or position. He obeyed God rather than the king. He was consistant behind closed doors as well as out in the open.

Reclaiming the Mind and Conversing With Scholars

For information of the liberalism of Reclaiming the Mind and The Theology Program and Conversing With Scholars go here and here.

Is "All truth God's truth" really true?

I have heard many Christians say "all truth is God's truth." This caused me discomfort because it doesn't seem biblical. I came across this article (while looking for something else) and thought that it had some very good points. Its from PsychoHeresy Awareness Ministries. I haven't yet checked out their website, so always proceed with caution, but I found this article honoring to the Word and the Lord.

Quote:

Lately, however, the important theological category of general revelation has been broadened to include all truth-claims made as a result of human efforts to understand the many aspects of the created order. Those who have broadened the category argue that the Scriptures are indeed the "special" revelation which God has left to us and that, because God is the Author of the entire created order, whenever men discover "truth" in that order, we can refer to that humanly discovered "truth" as "general revelation."....

Bookman summarizes this issue of Coe’s bibliology in a personal letter to us, in which he says:

The issue here relates very directly to the character of inspired Scripture. Wisdom literature, such as that which is represented by the sage in the book of Proverbs, is one of many precious and profitable genres of biblical literature. But the recorded message of the sage, no less than that of the prophet, the Gospelist or the writer of a New Testament epistle, is authoritative and dependable simply and only because it was breathed out by God (2 Tim 3:16). The prophets received their messages by means of dreams (Num 12:6); that doesn’t suggest that the dreams of men today are just as authoritative as those of the prophets. The sage normally received his message by means of observation; it is erroneous to conclude that therefore the observations of any man are as authoritative and/or dependable as those observations of the sage which are recorded in the pages of sacred Scripture. Note carefully that the debate here is not whether any of the observations made by human beings might be true. Rather, the debate is whether the observations of men today ought to be regarded as possessing the absolute certainty and/or normative authority which the Bible possesses in all of its parts. The words of the sage are not certain and authoritative because they were discovered by observation, any more than the words of Jude are certain and authoritative because he cites them from the apocryphal book of Enoch (Jude 14). The words of all biblical writers are authoritative because the recording of them was done under the careful supervision of the Holy Spirit which is known as "inspiration." To regard the words of men as possessing the same sublime dignity and ultimate authority that the words of the Bible possess is remarkably dangerous (italics in original).

Unquote.

For the whole article go here.

Just Stop & Think: God's Way or My Way--Who's Lord in all of this?

I've been in contact with the producer of "Just Stop and Think" video. Originally I had emailed Francis Chan, the one in the video. My email got bumped to the producer. Ok, not the person I really wanted to address, but I'll talk with him.

What was given to me in three emails was appalling. Man-centeredness all over the place with no Scripture and sprinkled with insults. The communication on Johnny Karls' part left a lot to be desired-- one wonders how HE communicates to the lost who are deaf. I gave several Scriptures that say God hates the wicked (as opposed to the claimed "God is crazy about you...God loves you" in the video). Karls said, yes, God has wrath against sin. I said, no, God hates the wicked PERSON...see right here... and showed the Scriptures I had given to him previously. Again, he said, yes, God hates the sin. Sigh. Was he even reading the Scriptures or what I clearly and distinctly said?

Reading Steve Camp's post on this video today, I also saw a HUGE lack of communication between Karls and Chan. They apparently had conflicting intentions and accomplishments (can one expect any differently in such a man-centered Post Modern/Emergent thinking?):

Chan said: “I really just wanted to present the gospel to the world; just the plain simple, as I clear as I could make it gospel, but outside of a church setting....Cause we thought if the Lord comes back this year, we wanted to know that we got out the gospel to everyone. (source: Passion 2007 Podcast, December 2006)

Karls said: Mind you, our fifteen minute movie is by no means the totality of the gospel message (where did you the idea that that was our intention?) This movie was meant to be an introduction to the God of the Bible. Our intention was to be brief, to be relational, and to introduce the unbeliever or the "religious" to the Rightious, Just, Loving, Holy God of the Bible.

Our goal of this short movie was to introduce or wet the appetite of the view to get to know God, PERIOD! Where did you get that this was meant to be Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost?

End quote. Source: email correspondance

These two men are supposed to be "full time pastors" who communicate the truth to their flocks (Karls doesn't say where he is a "full time pastor" but was sure to remind me repeatedly that both he and Karls graduated from seminary--not sure why that was even brought up). But if they can't even 1) communicate with EACH OTHER about their goal and accomplishement with the film, and 2) communicate the actual Gospel, and 3) listen and respond to what is actually said to them, then they then have no business doing what they are doing as "spiritual leaders". A pastor and evangelist are to clearly present the truth, and both have failed in this.

Stand To Reason did a search through the book of Acts and found that no where does it declare that God loves all people. Rather, it focuses on Christ, the need for repentance, sin, God's wrath, forgiveness, and even God's sovereignty, etc.

I went through Acts myself and found that when the gospel was given, so was the Resurrection. In fact, it was precisely because of the preaching of a Resurrected Christ Jesus that the apostles were on trial (Acts 23:6;24:14-15) and were also presecuted (Acts 16:22-23; 17:32;18:6).

In Scripture the Gospel is proclaimed, and a bait is not used. We aren't to try to hook unregenerates in to what we say and tell them if they really want the rest of the story (like Paul Harvey gives to the news), then you have to go hunt them down and read more of their own words.

Secondly, the makers of this movie do not trust the Sovereign God and His ways in converting the lost. They use the world's ways and means, not God's. This is a huge indictment upon them.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Eph 4:17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!

Using Hollywood and paying top dollar for it in order to teach about spiritual things is NOT the way of God. Paul did not present the truth in an entertaining way, but rather used plain speech with the bold truth. Same with Peter and John. And they didn't HIRE someone to make it a prettier package so the God-haters wouldn't be so offended.

Karls told me: "I have witnessed to many many people and the majority RUN when you mention the Bible, or Jesus, or the resurrection, or church. Now is that to say these things should be left out of the total conversation? absolutely not! It just means we're dealing with cultural paradigms that are real. Though I agree with the "fire and brimstone" message, it initially chases more people away than it draws in."

Truth always makes sinners run.

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Joh 6:60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? ...64 But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." 66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

Mat 15:12 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" 13 He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

Karls continues: " I find the approach we used in Stop and THink much more effective. Is it the complete gospel, absolutely not! Is it bringing people to the true, authentic, message of scripture? I believe so. "

This is pragmatism and the way of the world. This is man-centered baloney. Of course God-haters will run from being told about their hate of God, their lack of having any good, that Christ Jesus is Lord and the ONLY way, truth, and life and that no one can go to the Father but by HIM. Of course they are offended and run when they are told they have no good works and can't get to heaven by what they do or don't do. Its unbelievable that a seminary graduate worries about this, and more, tries to change the gospel given and its offense.

Karls said,“If you have a means of inspiring more people to Christ then I am VERY interested to hear about it.”

Yes I do: preaching the Gospel, which IS the power of God unto salvation. Rom. 1:16-17; Rom. 10:12-17; Acts 16:14; Acts 13:48.

Hear the words of GOD:

1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."
1Co 1:20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Why would "seminary graduates" ignore such clear truth from the Bible? Who are they to try and improve upon God's Word and HIS means?

Perhaps that's the biggest indictment on such people: Scripture is not enough. The Cross of the Resurrected Lord Jesus Christ is NOT enough, and the Lordship of Christ is denied.

Folks, its HIS Gospel declared in HIS given ways by HIS given means. If we call Him Lord, then let's do it HIS way, not our way. Or stop calling Him "Lord".