Tim Keller: Summary: "In a nutshell, our position is this: whatever a non-ruling elder male can do in the church, a woman can do. We do not believe that I Timothy 2:11 or I Corinthians 14:35-36 precludes women teaching the Bible to men or speaking publicly. To "teach with authority" (I Timothy 2:11) refers to disciplinary authority over the doctrine of someone. "
Specifics:
Admittedly, although it seems ridiculous, for Keller to say that his position paper, written along with wife Kathy, "represents many years of reflection, discussion, experimentation and practice. It is not an exegetical paper, studying passages in detail. It will, we hope, serve as a foundational paper for future patterns of women's ministry in the life of our congregation."
"In marriage, wives are told to give headship to their husbands (Ephesians 5:21 ff.)"
"The Bible directs that a wife, when she marries, give that "right/responsibility" freely to her husband. ...But when there is a "hung jury", and it is critical for one person to take both leadership and responsibility, the “head's” service takes the form of initiation. He leads by over-ruling."
In addition Keller says, "The traditionalist says: "Women must submit because women aren’t fit for making decisions, for leadership." But many couples will admit that the wife is more decisive and has better judgement than the husband. Besides, the Bible no where gives that as a reason."
Keller goes on:
Elders are to be men (1 Timothy 3:1-3). In 1 Timothy 2:11, Paul forbids women to "teach or have authority" over men. In 1 Corinthians 14:35-36, women are not to take part in determining whether a teacher is teaching sound doctrine. (Note: Paul's command for women to "keep silent in church" cannot mean that they may never speak publicly. That would contradict I Corinthians 11 where women are told to pray and prophesy. It means they are to keep silent when the prophets are judged.)
Elders are leaders who admit or dismiss people from the church, and they do "quality control" of members' doctrine. These are the only things that elders exclusively can do. Others can teach, disciple, serve, witness.
In a nutshell, our position is this: whatever a non-ruling elder male can do in the church, a woman can do. We do not believe that I Timothy 2:11 or I Corinthians 14:35-36 precludes women teaching the Bible to men or speaking publicly. To "teach with authority" (I Timothy 2:11) refers to disciplinary authority over the doctrine of someone. For example, when an elder says to a member: "You are telling everyone that they must be circumcised in order to be saved—that is a destructive, non-Biblical teaching which is hurting people spiritually. You must desist from it or you will have to leave the church." That is "teaching authority"—it belongs only to the elders.
Thus, women at Redeemer will be free to use all the gifts, privately and publicly. There are no restrictions on ministry at all. There is a restriction on the office of elder. Why? Because the Bible precludes it, and therein it points us back to the Trinitarian pattern which is strong in marriage and muted in society, but which is practiced in the church.
End quote.
John Frame : Summary: "The question submitted by the session was this: "Is it Biblically permissible for a woman to teach men and women in an Adult Sunday School Class if she is submitted to the session?Our conclusion, then, is that Scripture does not forbid under all circumstances a woman to teach men and women in an Adult Sunday School Class."
Specifics:
Quote:
Your committee unanimously holds that Scripture excludes women from the special teaching office. Scripture plainly teaches this limitation in I Cor. 14:33-35 and in I Tim. 2:11-15. But Scripture says with equal plainness that women are not excluded from the general teaching office. The passages mentioned above have a universal reference within the church. All believers, male and female (allowing as we must for differences in physical and mental ability) can and may teach one another.
Scripture specifically endorses women teaching children (II Tim. 1:5) and it urges that older women be trained to teach younger women (Tit. 2:3-5). Further, it is evident that in some biblical contexts women taught men with divine approval. There were female prophets in the early church (Acts 21:9, I Cor. 11:5), in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel that "your sons and daughters shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17). Further, Priscilla and her husband Aquila are both mentioned as those who instructed Apollos more accurately concerning the Word of God (Acts 18:24-28).
Mark Driscoll:
"At Mars Hill we seek to encourage women to use the abilities that God has given them to their fullest extent in anything from teaching a class to leading a community group, overseeing a ministry, leading as a deacon, speaking in church, leading worship, serving communion, entering into full-time paid ministry as a member of the staff, and receiving formal theological education-or basically every opportunity in our church but the office of elder/pastor." Mark Driscoll, "Church Leadership," 47. *Btw, Driscoll will be appearing on Robert Schuller's Hour of Demonic Power in two weeks.
I'd like to go back to something Keller said. He said, "In 1 Corinthians 14:35-36, women are not to take part in determining whether a teacher is teaching sound doctrine."
So he's saying that women can't have discernment. They're good enough to teach men, but they have to shut up and not question. Scripture doesn't restrict the gift of discernment to men only. If so, I'd like to see that verse. On the contrary:
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
Discernment is not a male gift. Now, a woman must be cautious because Eve was deceived. However, that said, God does not restrict discernment to the men. He does restrict teaching me to the men, as Paul says in 1Cor. 14 and 1Tim. 3.
I would further say that every Christian is responsible before God for their actions, including their deception. A woman cannot hide behind her husband and blame him for her sin. If the church's leadership or her husband is not aware or does not see the heresy of a teacher or teaching, but a woman does, then she must alert them of this. This is God's functioning of the gift of discernment, because clearly not all in leadership have it. Discernment does not usurp authority; rather it helps it. It aids in the growth and protection of the sheep. We are Christians first, not male or female (Gal. 3:28) and Truth trumps everything including all positions and relationships. Therefore, if a woman, who is given the gift of discernment by God, sees a false teaching or teacher creeping into the local church, she should go to her husband and the leadership and let them know. Then they have the responsibility to deal with it. At the very least, she can protect herself from listening to a false teacher.
1Tim. 2: 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 1Tim2: 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
1Cor. 14: 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
A plain and clear reading of this shows that silence would include not teaching. A woman is not to teach a man. Period. This doesn't take a Greek class to figure out. No linguistic gymnastics are needed. It says women are not to teach men. Why? Because it was the woman who was deceived, not the man. And its the man that is the leader, not the woman. Its so simple that a child can understand this (and many do!).
As to these men who think women can be deacons, Acts sets the standard and interpretation of later passages:
Act 6:2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
Also, having young people and women in leadership was not an approval by God, but judgement. Besides Deborah, we see this:
Isa 3:11 Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him, for what his hands have dealt out shall be done to him. 12 My people--infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths.
John MacArthur actually does exegete 1Tim. 2:10-12,contrary to Keller, Frame, and presumably Driscoll, but here's a snippet summary:
Silence, you’ll remember, refers to not teaching. It refers to not teaching. Subjection refers to not ruling. That is, women in the church are not to be the teachers when the church assembles itself in its constituted worship, women are not to be the teaching persons and they are not to be the ruling ones. The context makes it very clear that that’s what he has in mind because verse 12 says, “I permit not a woman to teach,” and therein does he define the kind of silence he’s talking about, nor to usurp authority, and therein does he define the kind of subjection he is talking about.
In the assembly of the church women are not to teach and preach and they are not to rule. Now there’s no doubt that that’s exactly what he is saying. Obviously in Ephesus some were seeking to do both of those things and that’s why he has to deal with this. Now in our last message we looked at a parallel passage in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 verses 34 and 35. And in that passage we found that Paul prohibits women in the assembly of the church from speaking in languages and interpretation and also from expressing the gift of prophecy. He says, “Let the women keep silence in the churches.” So we learn then from 1 Corinthians 14 when the church comes together women were not to speak in tongues when tongues were a valid gift. They were not to engage in the public interpretation and they were not to be involved in the prophesying. Here we add to that that they were not to be ruling in the church and they were not to be the preacher/teacher. Furthermore, we learned from verse 8 that women were not to lead the congregation in prayer, but the congregation was to be led in prayer by men. That’s why Paul says in verse 8, using boulema which is the will of command, I command therefore that definite article, the men pray everywhere. So when it comes to the worship of the church, the praying, the teaching, the speaking for God and the preaching is to be done by the men.
End quote.
And if you want to argue the exceptions like Deborah, Athaliah, Aquill and Priscilla, and Anna etc. MacArthur deals with them here. He reminds us there were never any female Kings or prophets or apostles.
Monday, June 15, 2009
Women Teachers? Kay Arthur, Beth Moore, and Priscilla Shirer Believe In Teaching Men Too
***Update*** October 10, 2023 Priscilla Shirer preaches a form of modalism which denies the distinction of the three Persons in the one Godhead, and instead says that there is one person taking the form of another. This is heresy. When one is wrong on the Godhead, one is wrong on everything else.
***Update*** Beth Moore filled in the pulpit of Lou Giglio's church on Sunday July 1, 2012 and continues to demonstrate her violation of Scripture regarding women not teaching men or having authority (what more authority does one have but when standing behind a pulpit and teaching the Word of God?) over men. She is a feminist and is unable to rightly handle the Word of God.
**Update**
**Update**
Upset with me because of this post? Please see the update at the bottom of this article.
Do you think these are women-only Bible teachers that are pretty solid? Most think so. But take a deeper look (pun intended) and you will find that these women not only violate clear Scripture about women teaching men, but they prove why God prohibits such a thing: they are promoting heresy, particularly that of the Emergent Church Movement like Contemplative Prayer, etc.
Teach Exclusively Women?
One thing that you will find when these women are talking, being quoted, or being touted, is that often it is said that they want "people" to know God, or "people" to know the Word, or they reach millions of "people" or 'households", showing that these women do not teach exclusively and solely to women only. This shows they are violating clear Scripture on the role of women and because they ignore what God says, they too, should be ignored (1Cor. 14) This should be a red flag to fans.
Beth Moore said in a video, “Several years ago Christ began to place a tremendous burden on my heart for the people of God to know the freedom of God.”
Kay Arthur's bio usually reads like this: "Kay reaches more than 80 million people daily through radio and TV and countless more through the Internet as the featured teacher on “Precepts for Life.” She and her husband Jack founded Precept Ministries International in 1970. Today, Precept teaches people in 150 countries and nearly 70 languages how to discover Truth for themselves." It doesn't describe her teaching to women, but "people".
Priscilla Shirer's bio says, "Priscilla is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, with a Master's degree in Biblical Studies. She has been a conference speaker for major corporations, organizations, and Christian audiences across the United States and the world.In 1997, while in seminary, she received a request to facilitate a Bible study at Ziglar Training Systems in Dallas, Texas. It was that day that she met international motivational speaker Zig Ziglar, who became not only her friend but also her mentor. She was asked to come on board as one of the company's motivational speakers and corporate trainers. In this capacity, she has provided training and inspiration to hundreds of companies and their employees across the country and abroad. Still, her desire was simply to teach the Word of God to women. "
If these women taught women exclusively, it would be reflected all the time as such, but it isn't and for good reason. They all believe women can teach men.
Kay Arthur
Kay is one of the leading Bible teachers that is often thought of as solid and grounded in Scripture. This makes her more dangerous.
Kay Arthur taught a mixed audience at Worldview Weekend. The two sessions, "When A Nation does Not Listen To God" and "Standing Firm In the Last Days" were NOT restricted to women, as the description of the 2009 Conference and picture of the 2008 prove. In fact, at the bottom of the DVD cover it says "Recorded Live Before a Crowd of 2300 People, at the Branson Worldview Weekend Family Reunion 2009".
Arthur also spoke at an Emergent conference called Breakforth 2008 on "Spiritual Renewal". Arthur spoke at Breakforth 2008 Conference: Spiritual Renewal: Controlling the Mind, A Hill On which to Die, and Schlepping The Shepherd's Sheep; as well as 4 part series "Spiritual Renewal".. She shared the pulpit with ECM leaders Erwin McManus (this year's speakers included Chris Shay, Shane Claiborne, Scot McKnight, Leonard Sweet, showing its very Emergent). Audio and listing of her topics to buy here.
Arthur is to teach at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. This is a liberal seminary, where they have nine women teaching men (see also these articles ), psychoheresy as a field of study, the Charlotte campus is partnering with Salvation Army (anti-Christian).
Kay Arthur's tv show "Precepts for Life" won the 2009 National Religious Broadcaster's "Best TV Teaching Program", with no mention of teaching women, but " viewers" and "102 million households". Again, if she was exclusively teaching women, this would be mentioned, but she doesn't and therefore her show is not described as such. Neither does Arthur say things like "women, listen...." or "ladies, I know you might struggle with....". I've seen her show and she does not do this, nor is there any cautionary note at the beginning of the show that this is intended for a female audience. Same is true for her Precepts radio gig.
Arthur might teach at Women's conferences, but she does not teach women exclusively and this needs to be emphasized. Many women think she's solid, but how solid is a woman who teaches men? How much more clear must God be when He says in His Word, 1Ti 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet"?
Beth Moore
Again, touted as a woman who teaches women, many assume she teaches women exclusively. This isn't the case. She started out and continued for years, to teach men in her Sunday School class at church. Here's the proof from an archived page from her church's website back in 2004:
"Prior to Water's Edge, Beth taught a class for a small group of ladies that began in 1985. The group grew consistently and in 1997 a small number of men began to attend. At that time, God began to do a new thing, stirring the heart of Beth to move to a new meeting place, meeting time, change the name of the class, and allow men to attend. Since then, the class has changed locations several times to accommodate the growing number of singles and couples of all ages that come to hear the inspired teaching of God's Word.
"Beth Moore has been a Sunday School teacher at Houston's First Baptist Church since 1984. She began teaching an aerobics class/bible study combo to a small group of fortunate women. Now her class, minus aerobic activity, includes men and women, at all walks and stages of their lives."
Christianity Today article on Moore:
Quote:
"We had her at our church several years ago," says Holder, 60, a member of the large First Baptist Church of Orlando. "I sat there with my mouth hanging open. It took me two weeks to process everything."
"You know that she knows her [heavenly] Father and that it's not fake," Holder adds. "She shares some of her hurts and some of the things she's been through and how God still chose to use her. There's such freedom at her conferences. She says that God has a plan and purpose for each one of us, and that no matter who we are or where we have been, God wants us to live in total freedom."
Moore says her mission is to show Christians that the Bible "still speaks, still transforms, that it has the power to change lives."
Years ago, the work she did at her local church began on a much smaller scale. Friends now say that it was Moore's faithfulness in the small things that laid the foundation for the huge ministry she heads today.
Her calling eventually took on a larger dimension, as Moore stayed involved at First Baptist Church of Houston, a huge Southern Baptist congregation she joined in the early 1980s, and the place she now teaches a coed Sunday-school class of 600 members and leads a Tuesday-night Bible study that draws more than 3,000 women.
John Bisagno, the former pastor of First Baptist Houston, mentored Moore, He agrees that Moore's balanced approach has made her a stellar teacher.
Bisagno gave Moore opportunities to grow as a teacher by allowing her to speak regularly during the church's Sunday-evening services. Bisagno, who retired three years ago after pastoring in Houston for 30 years, says he can remember Moore frequently coming to him with questions about Scripture. "She would always come to me and ask if this or that was right," he recalls.
Moore wanted to make sure she knew her stuff, and Bisagno played a big role in her development. Their relationship stands out as unique in a denomination where leaders assert that women should not be pastors or hold prominent positions of leadership over men in a church.
Bisagno, however, said Moore never went against Southern Baptist beliefs. "Beth would be strong to tell you that she doesn't think a woman should be a preacher," he says.
Moore admits she steers clear of denominational issues. "My thing is discipleship," she says. "That's what I love and feel most called to. My part is very undenominational. I'm not really into the [Southern Baptist] political scene."
While Bisagno and others respect Moore as a prominent spiritual leader, her rise to celebrity status hasn't made life perfect for Moore. Along the way, she's faced deep pain.
End quote.
So far, we don't see Moore herself saying women aren't to be preachers, yet we have her preaching/teaching men every Sunday she's at her church. It appears Moore sees the role of women as merely a denominational and political issue, so rejecting denominationalism, she can ignore not only what the SBC states, more far more importantly, what God says about women teaching men. Very clever!
Photo of Moore talking to a couple at one of her conferences here.
Moore will be speaking to men and women at the Emergent friendly Passion 2010 conference (college age, which means grown men).
Moore will be speaking to a mixed audience at the leadership conference Influence Conference, in August 2009, sharing the platform with Sex- Obssessed, Modalist friendly Ed Young and ECM friendly Reggie Joiner.
Priscilla Shirer
She is the daughter of Tony Evans, promoter of generational curses. His views on sinning saints is off as well (proceed with caution on these websites).
Shirer's been heavily influenced by his teaching:
"My father is an extraordinary man, with an extraordinary purpose. God has used him all over the world to do wonderful things for the Kingdom of God. I have been privileged to sit under his anointed exegetical teaching of the Scriptures since I was a little girl. I am still a member at the church he founded and serves as senior pastor for over 30 years. In fact, all of my siblings are still members and now our children. "
She is part of this spectacle of nonsense of The Colour 2010 Conference (see the video which shows from last year). The founder's blurb says: "With a contagious zest for life, Bobbie (founder) passionately believes in the potential of all people and is devoted to the Cause of Christ. Her and Brian’s all consuming desire is to place value on humanity. To that end they labor to see healthy men, women and youth emerge across the landscape of the Church. "
The Conference page says "So keep following the sound... Heaven is watching, Humanity is waiting and today is the day of His glorious salvation across the earth."
This smacks of universal redemptio, however there is no page that explains their doctrine, statement of faith, or anything. Shirer will be a speaker next year again, alongside psychobabblist Dr Robi Sonderegger.
Women teaching men is A-OK :
To the question: "Priscilla, is it appropriate for women in ministry to have titles like “Reverend.” Can a woman be a pastor of a local church? What does the Scripture teach about women in ministry?" She answers:
Paul very specifically instructs Timothy in the positioning of women in the local church. He tells Timothy in relation to his work at the church at Ephesus, "let a woman quietly receive instruction with submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet" (1 Timothy 2:11-12). The Greek word used here for "quiet" does not mean to say absolutely nothing, but to be "settled down." Paul is saying that women need to "settle down" into the hierarchy that God has established and be comfortable with the position that they have been given in the local church. To try in any way to usurp this authority is to go against the roles He has established and created for the operation of the church. Paul's concern was not about their external title but about their internal level of submission.
Paul goes on to make it very clear in 1 Timothy 3 that the position of overseer of the church or elder is reserved for males when he continues to stress that these people be "men." He even goes so far as to say that they should be "the husband of one wife" (vs 2) which excludes women from this role. So although a woman's chosen title is of little concern to me, I do firmly believe that Scripture is clear in telling us that the position of senior pastor in the local church is reserved for men.
With that being said, I do not want to in any way diminish the great giftedness of women to teach and preach. Once again, in 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul said that he didn't want a woman to "exercise authority" over a man. His concern is that she understand and submit to the roles that God has established for men and women and the need for her to fall underneath the authority that God has set up in the local church. If a senior pastor has invited a woman to preach on a Sunday morning or to teach his congregation, then she is effectively under the leadership and the authority of that church and is free to operate in that realm. Remember, position and submission to authority is the issue here not the actual act of preaching or the title that someone has. If a woman feels that God has given her the freedom by God to teach and she is under the authority of the pastor of that church to do so, then she should.
End quote.
This Bible teacher conveniently ignores the whole verse:
1Tim. 2: 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 1Tim2: 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1Cor. 14: 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
Being silent would indicate what Paul has also said in 1Timothy: no teaching men. Period. Why? Because Eve was made second after Adam. She was not the leader, he was. She was deceived, Adam was not. The reason women are not to teach men is because they are far more easily led into deception, as we see with these three women, and then will lead others like Eve did.
Let's remember too: women are to submit to their "own husbands". Not the pastor, not elders, but their husband:
1Pe 3:5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands...
Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
If a woman who claims to be a Bible teacher cannot rightly handle the Word of God concerning women's roles, then how can she rightly handle anything else?
Women Pretending to Be Pastors Over Women--or pastor-less "house of God"?
Deeper Still in "a house of God" with three women preaching: video.
These women reflect a growing anti-biblical view of women's roles, that is self-contradictory, as relfected by Mark Driscoll, the beloved Reformed Filthy Goat-Herder: Source.
This is why these women either teach men in the audience (radio, seminar, tv, church) or they approve of those that do. This is a clear violation of God's command that women are not to have authority or teach men. How sneaky it is of famous Christian women to be famous for teaching men, but in reality do teach men and then justify their sin by claiming they are in submission to their husband or the pastor. If either the pastor or husband tells them its ok for them to teach men, they are also violating clear Scripture as Adam did. Pastors do NOT have the authority to violate Scripture by allowing a woman to teach men.
This is not to be tolerated, no matter how many ways around the command they try. At the end of the day, they are still not submitting to the Master who said they can't teach men.
Contemplative Mysticism
Kay Arthur, Beth Moore, and Priscilla Shirer are helping to promote Eastern Mysticism by their participation in the "Deeper Still" dvd/conferences (sequal to the Mystical "Be Still And Know" dvd put out a few years ago).
Spoke at an Emergent conference:
Arthur spoke at Breakforth 2008 Conference: Spiritual Renewal: Controlling the Mind, A Hill On which to Die, and Schlepping The Shepherd's Sheep; as well as 4 part series "Spiritual Renewal".. She shared the pulpit with ECM leader Erwin McManus (this year's speakers included Chris Shay, Shane Claiborne, Scot McKnight, Leonard Sweet, showing its very Emergent). Promo.
Standby for Precepts to become more Emergent Friendly when son David Arthur takes over. Note at the bottom of the article his "favorite author": The Message author and huge ECM leader, Eugene Peterson. His education also includes a Master's degree from liberal Reformed Theological Seminary.
**Update***
Kay Arthur has signed an eccumenical/inter-faith document, the Manhattan Declaration, which states that Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Evangelicals are united in Christ Jesus, all for the cause of social concerns. By doing so, she has rejected the non-negotiables of salvation and justification by faith alone in Christ alone, just to have a larger voice on social concerns. So much for Truth that truly frees.
Before you comment....
Did you read my whole article carefully? Or did you just skim it and got upset because you saw your favorite public teacher/author being tested against Scripture? Do you know how she fails the test? If you don't, you didn't bother to read the entire article where I've laid out with multiple examples of why these women are unbiblical and violate Scripture both in doctrine and in practice.
As King David so clearly professed (in Ps. 139 for example), we should be angry with what makes God angry; be offended when God is offended. If you have an issue, its not with me but God. HE has already spoken.
And remember this: if you are tolerant of these women and defend them even though they violate Scripture both in doctrine and practice, you should at least be consistant and show me the same tolerance and acceptance, right?
***Update***
For solid teaching on the proper role of women in the church and in marriage (I gave plenty of Scriptures on this), I would recommend John MacArthur's articles.
"God's High Call For Women"
"God's High Call For Women" the entire series available to read or to listen
"The Biblical Portrait of Women: Setting the Record Straight"
For solid teaching on the proper role of women in the church and in marriage (I gave plenty of Scriptures on this), I would recommend John MacArthur's articles.
"God's High Call For Women"
"God's High Call For Women" the entire series available to read or to listen
"The Biblical Portrait of Women: Setting the Record Straight"
Friday, June 12, 2009
Sarah Palin: Parades Her Daughter, Now Is Upset With Media Treatment
Sarah Palin is up in arms about David Letterman making jokes about her and her daughter. Now she's got the support of a woman's advocacy group.
The problem is this: if Palin would stop parading her daughter around for political gain and compromise, she'd be far less of a target. Palin's feeling the affects of feminism and doesn't quite like it. She should get no more special treatment than any other politican. Perhaps she's not up to the task of being in the big leagues.
That said, David Letterman is a bumbling liberal. Why would anyone really expect him to be "nice" to Conservatives?
The problem is this: if Palin would stop parading her daughter around for political gain and compromise, she'd be far less of a target. Palin's feeling the affects of feminism and doesn't quite like it. She should get no more special treatment than any other politican. Perhaps she's not up to the task of being in the big leagues.
That said, David Letterman is a bumbling liberal. Why would anyone really expect him to be "nice" to Conservatives?
Thursday, June 11, 2009
New Miss California Is No Better Than Prejean On Homosexuality
Worldnetdaily reports:
Tami Farrell, the newly crowned beauty queen who is replacing the ousted Carrie Prejean as Miss California, apparently holds the same view as her predecessor, Carrie Prejean, that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
Fox News host Neil Cavuto asked Farrell, who is Christian, on his show today:"[Prejean] went out and said that a marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you share that view?"
Farrell responded in the affirmative with a simple, "Uh huh."
"You do, OK," said Cavuto.
Farrell quickly added: "I don't think that I have the right or anybody has a right to tell somebody who they can or can't love. And I think that this is a civil rights issue. And I think that the right thing to do is let the voters decide."
Earlier in the interview, Cavuto asked, "Do you mind my asking you, Tami, how you feel, about gay marriage since this has been such a hot issue with your predecessor?"
First of all, God condemns homosexuality period. It is our duty as Christians to also condemn (not approve, which Farrell did as well as Prejean by lowering Truth to mere opinion) such a unnatural lifestyle and warn those who are in it that if they don't repent they will go to Hell as Scripture clearly proclaims. This is not an optional view and its not an issue to leave open to mere opinion or fear of being divisive.
Jesus came to bring a sword, not peace, to whole households because the Truth of Him divides the elect from the unelect (Matt. 10). Truth cannot accept falsehood.
These women certainly are not taking God's stand. HE is vividly clear on homosexuality. Why can't those who claim the name of Christ do likewise? Could it be that they fear man rather than God? Could it be that they merely wear the label "Christian" but in fact are not?
Tami Farrell, the newly crowned beauty queen who is replacing the ousted Carrie Prejean as Miss California, apparently holds the same view as her predecessor, Carrie Prejean, that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
Fox News host Neil Cavuto asked Farrell, who is Christian, on his show today:"[Prejean] went out and said that a marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you share that view?"
Farrell responded in the affirmative with a simple, "Uh huh."
"You do, OK," said Cavuto.
Farrell quickly added: "I don't think that I have the right or anybody has a right to tell somebody who they can or can't love. And I think that this is a civil rights issue. And I think that the right thing to do is let the voters decide."
Earlier in the interview, Cavuto asked, "Do you mind my asking you, Tami, how you feel, about gay marriage since this has been such a hot issue with your predecessor?"
Farrell's response: "You know, I think it's hilarious right now that the world is turning to beauty queens for the answers for this. I think it's an important issue and I think that it's one that I don't think I can win a battle. I don't want to be any more divisive than it's already become."
Donald Trump, owner of the pageant, said he fired the Miss USA runner-up not for her stance against same-sex marriage, but for failing to make required appearances, as well as unauthorized attendance at other events.
"I told Carrie she needed to get back to work and honor her contract with the Miss California USA Organization and I gave her the opportunity to do so," Trump said. "Unfortunately it just doesn't look like it is going to happen."
End quote.First of all, God condemns homosexuality period. It is our duty as Christians to also condemn (not approve, which Farrell did as well as Prejean by lowering Truth to mere opinion) such a unnatural lifestyle and warn those who are in it that if they don't repent they will go to Hell as Scripture clearly proclaims. This is not an optional view and its not an issue to leave open to mere opinion or fear of being divisive.
Jesus came to bring a sword, not peace, to whole households because the Truth of Him divides the elect from the unelect (Matt. 10). Truth cannot accept falsehood.
These women certainly are not taking God's stand. HE is vividly clear on homosexuality. Why can't those who claim the name of Christ do likewise? Could it be that they fear man rather than God? Could it be that they merely wear the label "Christian" but in fact are not?
Wednesday, June 10, 2009
Carrie Prejean Fired
Carrie Prejean would not fulfill her commitment toMiss USA California and so was fired, Fox News reports :
In a release first obtained by FOXNews.com, K2 Productions, the independent producers of the Miss California USA pageant, under license from Miss Universe, cited continued breach of contract issues as the reason for Prejean's firing.
"This was a decision based solely on contract violations," Keith Lewis, executive director of K2 Productions, said in the release.... it has become abundantly clear that Carrie has no desire to fulfill her obligations under our contract and work together.”
But it was Trump who gave the final OK to fire her, FOXNews.com learned.
"I told Carrie she needed to get back to work and honor her contract with the Miss California Organization and I gave her the opportunity to do so," Trump said in the same release.
"Unfortunately it just doesn’t look like it is going to happen and I offered Keith my full support in making this decision."
Representatives for K2 and Donald Trump referred to the release when asked for fruther comment. Prejean did not respond for comment.
According to a source, Prejean has aspirations to write a book and pursue other opportunities, which she will be able to do now that she has been released from her duties as Miss California.
End quote.
How does this honor Christ? Not only her immoral behavior, but her lack of integrity is a disgrace.
In a release first obtained by FOXNews.com, K2 Productions, the independent producers of the Miss California USA pageant, under license from Miss Universe, cited continued breach of contract issues as the reason for Prejean's firing.
"This was a decision based solely on contract violations," Keith Lewis, executive director of K2 Productions, said in the release.... it has become abundantly clear that Carrie has no desire to fulfill her obligations under our contract and work together.”
But it was Trump who gave the final OK to fire her, FOXNews.com learned.
"I told Carrie she needed to get back to work and honor her contract with the Miss California Organization and I gave her the opportunity to do so," Trump said in the same release.
"Unfortunately it just doesn’t look like it is going to happen and I offered Keith my full support in making this decision."
Representatives for K2 and Donald Trump referred to the release when asked for fruther comment. Prejean did not respond for comment.
According to a source, Prejean has aspirations to write a book and pursue other opportunities, which she will be able to do now that she has been released from her duties as Miss California.
End quote.
How does this honor Christ? Not only her immoral behavior, but her lack of integrity is a disgrace.
Sunday, June 07, 2009
Matt Chandler: Showing Signs of Being Emergent
Matt Chandler, who is pastor of The Village church, is being promoted by John Piper (go here for the article by Ken Silva).
Claiming to be a Calvinst (whatever that means anymore), he is a promoter of the Emergent Church Movement (speaker at Catalyst which is ECM), while saying some decent things. Like Driscoll, except I haven't heard Chandler "cuss" although he did use the "c" word in his interview with Driscoll. In fact, throughout his church's website, the language peculiar to ECM is used, as are the books the church recommends to its people. Remember, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, its usually a duck.
Chandler is connected directly with ECM founder and course-talking Mark Driscoll:
His church links to Acts 29 and The Resurgence (Driscoll's website). As well, he also links to Piper. This is no surprise. When people like Piper they usually like his friend Mark Driscoll and more often than not, if there's a link to Desiring God, there's also a link to Resurgence.
Interview with Driscoll here. The first sign of a church dying is not taking care of the building, Chandler says. He preached (live) at the Villiage Denten campus church once at the one year anniversary. He "speaks in places that reformed, complimentarian teachers don't get invited to --because he grew a church to a mega church." His numbers got him invited...not doctrine. More than "just preaching the bible"--they want to know how to grow a church. "Most reformed churches ar 6, 8, 10 families" and they laugh at that. "Larger churches know how to organize." He's learning about technology and marketing for his church. Uses the c* word in this interview. Driscoll assumes books, conferences would be upcoming as the next level. Chandler says he will be writing a book.
Chandler is a Catalyst speaker. This is very much an Emergent conference with various ECM leaders coming to speak yearly. ECM leaders such as Andy Stanley who helped start this event. Others like John Maxwell. Catalyst had Emergent heretic Rob Bell in July 2006. Speakers for this year here which includes Bell again, ECMer Carlos Wittaker, ECM leader Chris Seay, and some women (Nancy Ortberg, Miriam Webster, Lisa Harper, ECM feminist Margaret Feinberg), ECM's Leadership Network "Mission Specialist" Reggie McNeal, ECMer Ed Stetzer, ECM leader Alan Hirsch, and Perry Nobel.
Partners of Catalyst are emergent also.
Chandler is a speaker at Emergent Exponential 09 (Catalyst is a sponsor, along with Leadership Network, Shapevine, Willow Creek Association, Zondervan, Bethel Seminary, and RTS which is going Emergent/liberal) . Other speakers he shares the platform with are: John Burke, Francis Chan (he's also at Catalyst), Alan Hirsch, Tim Keller, Ed Stetzer, Erwin McManus, Gary Lamb. Women will also be speaking, some are women "pastors" and/or feminists like Lisa Bennett, Kelly Kastens ("worship director"), Tammy Melchien, Anne Miliam, Mary Nelson, Sommer Wisher.
Chandler spoke at the Acts 29 Boot Camp this year:
"The Acts 29 Boot Camp is considered by many to be one of the best available. It is required for Acts 29 applicants, but is open to anyone. Are you considering planting a church? Are you called? Are you ready? The Acts 29 Boot Camp can help make the difference between success and casualty. The Seattle Boot Camp will be hosted by Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. Speakers for this event will include Mark Driscoll and many more."
"The goal of a minister of reconciliation is to restore man and creation to a right relationship with the Lord. The primary way we serve our city is through each of our members engaging all areas of their lives with purpose and intentionality as God has called them....Second, the Church as a whole has been called to seek the good of the city (Jeremiah 29: 5-8). We seek the welfare of the city by focusing our corporate missions efforts on improving the health, safety, education and commercial opportunities available within the city."
This isn't what the churches of God are called to do anywhere in the NT, where God starts building His churches. We see the local body ministerying first and foremost to Christians. The local church is not called to change the world/society.
Jesus said, Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world." Commercial opportunities are earthly and temporal and we haven't TIME to help the world with their economic status.
Col 3:2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
The Villiage's Serving the World: more emergent phrasology:
"Missions is something we attempt to live out every day. So, whether it is engaging our neighbors or co-workers, or going to serve those who live in the uttermost parts of the world, those experiences are tools to help us live out Missional Living with other members of the church. While we believe "missions" is a lifestyle, we recognize that we are called to engage and serve all the peoples of the world."
We're called to PROCLAIM the Gospel and make disciples and then baptize them,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." But if you're too busy worrying about commerical opportunities or ridding the world of hunger or worried about education, then there isn't TIME to teach them ALL JESUS commanded.
Here's where the Calvinist's church reflects Arminian/Emergent theology (not Calvinist or Reformed) in relation to the "Gospel" (aka story)they give at their website - note the missing declaration of man dead in sins and trespasses, haters of God, His enemies. They paint a fairer picture of fallen man and make Salvation about a story, not Truth, not Fact, but a mere story. Stories lower the power of the Gospel and God NEVER refers to the Gospel nor His redemption as a "story". Like sin, Hell is horrific and real. But they don't mention that either. This sounds far more akin to what Ricky Warren says.
"The story of redemption is about the living God. He has been writing a grand and glorious narrative of His goodness and grace since before time began. "
"Through one man's disobedience, we fell from this joyful state of fellowship. Sin entered our hearts, and with that sin, the world became twisted and fractured."
"The harmony and peace that creation once enjoyed was damaged by sin and broken in disrepair."
"Since that time, God has patiently and purposefully continued the story of redemption."
"Through Christ we have been offered restoration and reconciliation. God takes that which is broken and makes it new. The Father invites His children into relationship with Him and into the newness of life Christ offers. We urge you to explore this story further. What God starts He will bring to completion, and we pray that you would be woven into the narrative."
"If you feel Christ inviting you into this story — inviting you into restored relationship with the living God — turn to Him in repentance and put your trust in Him and the work He accomplished on the cross to redeem you and save you."
For any biblical Christian the above message should cause eyes to pop out and grief to set in. This reflects NOTHING of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ or the true view of the Fall. This is not even reformed, but totally Emergent.
The Villiage Recommended Books
Paul Tripp (the guy who justifies using the s word and taught his kids to use it.),"Age of Opportunity", "Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands", "War of Words"
James Dobson "Bringing up Boys"
John Piper - half a dozen of his books
Robert Putnam "Bowling Alone" a secular book on American Community
Richard Foster - "Celebration of Discipline", "Streams of Living Water", "The Challenge of the Disciplined Life"
Andy Stanley and lane Jones "Communicating for a Change" - emergent
JI Packer "Concise Theology" - interfaith
Augustine "Confessions" Roman Catholic philosopher
Mark Driscoll "Confession of a Reformission Rev.", "The Radical Reformission"
Dan Wallace "Dethroning Jesus" - liberal scholar
Larry Crabb "Inside out" - psychologist turned mystic
Arbinger Institute - "Leadershp and Self- Deception" - http://www.blogger.com/ : "Arbinger is a diverse group, trained in business, law, economics, philosophy, the family, education, coaching, and psychology. We come from diverse cultural, religious and non-religious backgrounds. We share a deep understanding and passion for Arbinger's compelling model of human understanding. It offers people a common language for openly and clearly discussing - and settling - their differences. And it works across cultures, races, classes, religions and beliefs."
CS Lewis - "Mere Christianity", "The Problem of Pain" - Romanism
Tim Keller "Ministries of Mercy", "The Reason for God" - Emerging
Darrell L. Guder - "Missional Church" - http://www.blogger.com/ eccumenial, liberal (PCUSA)
Gordon MacDonald - Ordering Your World (disqualified pastor)
Ed Stetzer- "Planting Missional Churches"
Don Whitney - "Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life" - Foster promoter
Philip Yancey - "The Bible Jesus Read", "The Jesus I never Knew" , "What's So Amazing About Grace?"- liberal, pro-Homosexual - http://www.takeheed.net/SEPTEMBER2004.htm
John Stott - "The Cross of Christ" - denier of literal Hell, Anglican
Peter Drucker - "The Effective Executive" - http://www.blogger.com/
Brother Lawrence - "The Practice of the Presence of God"
Brennan Manning - "The Ragamuffin Gospel"
Dallas Willard - "The Spirit of the Disciplines"
Edward Welch - "When People Are Big" - holds to psychology/integration: http://www.blogger.com/
Remember, a denial of being Emergent doesn't mean one is not. What counts is what they actually say and do. Chandler'd website is full of emergent speak and Arminian theology (like his "gospel" page). Driscoll is the same way: he claims to not be Emergent, even though he's one of the founding fathers of the modern movement, and after distancing himself from it, he then turned around and hosted an Emergent Conference with leaders of the ECM like Karen Ward.
***Update****
I came across this Recovery program at The Villiage. While sprinkled with some Scripture, the quotes included: Quotes: CS Lewis, WCF; Celebrate Recovery Principle 7 (Rick Warren);Spiritual Disciplines/Richard Foster; JI Packer; Piper; Spiritual Disciplines (Bible reading, meditation, prayer, fasting, solitude, confession, silence, worship, fellowship, service p.36); pragmatism.
He also follows Alan Hirsch and Andy Crouch on Twitter.
Chandler was a speaker at Leadership Network's Innovation 3 Conference. Leadership Network is probably the biggest promoter of all things Emergent.
Matt Chandler: "Engaging the Culture And Deepening Your Church".
Claiming to be a Calvinst (whatever that means anymore), he is a promoter of the Emergent Church Movement (speaker at Catalyst which is ECM), while saying some decent things. Like Driscoll, except I haven't heard Chandler "cuss" although he did use the "c" word in his interview with Driscoll. In fact, throughout his church's website, the language peculiar to ECM is used, as are the books the church recommends to its people. Remember, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, its usually a duck.
Chandler is connected directly with ECM founder and course-talking Mark Driscoll:
His church links to Acts 29 and The Resurgence (Driscoll's website). As well, he also links to Piper. This is no surprise. When people like Piper they usually like his friend Mark Driscoll and more often than not, if there's a link to Desiring God, there's also a link to Resurgence.
Interview with Driscoll here. The first sign of a church dying is not taking care of the building, Chandler says. He preached (live) at the Villiage Denten campus church once at the one year anniversary. He "speaks in places that reformed, complimentarian teachers don't get invited to --because he grew a church to a mega church." His numbers got him invited...not doctrine. More than "just preaching the bible"--they want to know how to grow a church. "Most reformed churches ar 6, 8, 10 families" and they laugh at that. "Larger churches know how to organize." He's learning about technology and marketing for his church. Uses the c* word in this interview. Driscoll assumes books, conferences would be upcoming as the next level. Chandler says he will be writing a book.
Chandler is a Catalyst speaker. This is very much an Emergent conference with various ECM leaders coming to speak yearly. ECM leaders such as Andy Stanley who helped start this event. Others like John Maxwell. Catalyst had Emergent heretic Rob Bell in July 2006. Speakers for this year here which includes Bell again, ECMer Carlos Wittaker, ECM leader Chris Seay, and some women (Nancy Ortberg, Miriam Webster, Lisa Harper, ECM feminist Margaret Feinberg), ECM's Leadership Network "Mission Specialist" Reggie McNeal, ECMer Ed Stetzer, ECM leader Alan Hirsch, and Perry Nobel.
Partners of Catalyst are emergent also.
Chandler is a speaker at Emergent Exponential 09 (Catalyst is a sponsor, along with Leadership Network, Shapevine, Willow Creek Association, Zondervan, Bethel Seminary, and RTS which is going Emergent/liberal) . Other speakers he shares the platform with are: John Burke, Francis Chan (he's also at Catalyst), Alan Hirsch, Tim Keller, Ed Stetzer, Erwin McManus, Gary Lamb. Women will also be speaking, some are women "pastors" and/or feminists like Lisa Bennett, Kelly Kastens ("worship director"), Tammy Melchien, Anne Miliam, Mary Nelson, Sommer Wisher.
Chandler spoke at the Acts 29 Boot Camp this year:
"The Acts 29 Boot Camp is considered by many to be one of the best available. It is required for Acts 29 applicants, but is open to anyone. Are you considering planting a church? Are you called? Are you ready? The Acts 29 Boot Camp can help make the difference between success and casualty. The Seattle Boot Camp will be hosted by Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. Speakers for this event will include Mark Driscoll and many more."
His profile is on Driscoll's "the resurgence" website.
Chandler was a speaker at Driscoll's Advance 09 along with ECMer Driscoll and Ed Stetzer, as well as Piper.
Four Books recommended for "Grief recovery" at his Villiage church (how many recovery programs does a church need? Isn't simple discipleship and pastoral counseling enough?):
One is by Thomas Watson. The only author in line with "Calvinism" as Chandler claims he is.
Two books by Romanist CS Lewis who was NOT Evangelical in the least. Let's not forget his questionable relationship, too.
One book by Nancy Guthrie (she enjoys Emergent leader Eugene Peterson...also it appears she teaches men from time to time).
Emergent verbage in their statement of philosophy of ministry like
"incarnationl", "attractional"
Counseling outside the local church--this shows a low view of God's way of setting up the local assembly to help disciple men and women and equip them. Note the emergent vocabulary:
"We believe an authentic church should strive to meet individual needs through relationships with others in community. You can develop relationships with others through home groups, support groups, and other connection opportunities. When additional care is required, our pastoral care ministry exists to meet the emotional and spiritual needs of Village attendees in unique life circumstances. The following services are available..." Then they offer three ministries outside of the church.
On the Villiages page on Serving the community: we see Emergent vocabulary and wrong ecclesiology:"The goal of a minister of reconciliation is to restore man and creation to a right relationship with the Lord. The primary way we serve our city is through each of our members engaging all areas of their lives with purpose and intentionality as God has called them....Second, the Church as a whole has been called to seek the good of the city (Jeremiah 29: 5-8). We seek the welfare of the city by focusing our corporate missions efforts on improving the health, safety, education and commercial opportunities available within the city."
This isn't what the churches of God are called to do anywhere in the NT, where God starts building His churches. We see the local body ministerying first and foremost to Christians. The local church is not called to change the world/society.
Jesus said, Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world." Commercial opportunities are earthly and temporal and we haven't TIME to help the world with their economic status.
Col 3:2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
The Villiage's Serving the World: more emergent phrasology:
"Missions is something we attempt to live out every day. So, whether it is engaging our neighbors or co-workers, or going to serve those who live in the uttermost parts of the world, those experiences are tools to help us live out Missional Living with other members of the church. While we believe "missions" is a lifestyle, we recognize that we are called to engage and serve all the peoples of the world."
We're called to PROCLAIM the Gospel and make disciples and then baptize them,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." But if you're too busy worrying about commerical opportunities or ridding the world of hunger or worried about education, then there isn't TIME to teach them ALL JESUS commanded.
Here's where the Calvinist's church reflects Arminian/Emergent theology (not Calvinist or Reformed) in relation to the "Gospel" (aka story)they give at their website - note the missing declaration of man dead in sins and trespasses, haters of God, His enemies. They paint a fairer picture of fallen man and make Salvation about a story, not Truth, not Fact, but a mere story. Stories lower the power of the Gospel and God NEVER refers to the Gospel nor His redemption as a "story". Like sin, Hell is horrific and real. But they don't mention that either. This sounds far more akin to what Ricky Warren says.
"The story of redemption is about the living God. He has been writing a grand and glorious narrative of His goodness and grace since before time began. "
"Through one man's disobedience, we fell from this joyful state of fellowship. Sin entered our hearts, and with that sin, the world became twisted and fractured."
"The harmony and peace that creation once enjoyed was damaged by sin and broken in disrepair."
"Since that time, God has patiently and purposefully continued the story of redemption."
"Through Christ we have been offered restoration and reconciliation. God takes that which is broken and makes it new. The Father invites His children into relationship with Him and into the newness of life Christ offers. We urge you to explore this story further. What God starts He will bring to completion, and we pray that you would be woven into the narrative."
"If you feel Christ inviting you into this story — inviting you into restored relationship with the living God — turn to Him in repentance and put your trust in Him and the work He accomplished on the cross to redeem you and save you."
For any biblical Christian the above message should cause eyes to pop out and grief to set in. This reflects NOTHING of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ or the true view of the Fall. This is not even reformed, but totally Emergent.
The Villiage Recommended Books
Paul Tripp (the guy who justifies using the s word and taught his kids to use it.),"Age of Opportunity", "Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands", "War of Words"
James Dobson "Bringing up Boys"
John Piper - half a dozen of his books
Robert Putnam "Bowling Alone" a secular book on American Community
Richard Foster - "Celebration of Discipline", "Streams of Living Water", "The Challenge of the Disciplined Life"
Andy Stanley and lane Jones "Communicating for a Change" - emergent
JI Packer "Concise Theology" - interfaith
Augustine "Confessions" Roman Catholic philosopher
Mark Driscoll "Confession of a Reformission Rev.", "The Radical Reformission"
Dan Wallace "Dethroning Jesus" - liberal scholar
Larry Crabb "Inside out" - psychologist turned mystic
Arbinger Institute - "Leadershp and Self- Deception" - http://www.blogger.com/ : "Arbinger is a diverse group, trained in business, law, economics, philosophy, the family, education, coaching, and psychology. We come from diverse cultural, religious and non-religious backgrounds. We share a deep understanding and passion for Arbinger's compelling model of human understanding. It offers people a common language for openly and clearly discussing - and settling - their differences. And it works across cultures, races, classes, religions and beliefs."
CS Lewis - "Mere Christianity", "The Problem of Pain" - Romanism
Tim Keller "Ministries of Mercy", "The Reason for God" - Emerging
Darrell L. Guder - "Missional Church" - http://www.blogger.com/ eccumenial, liberal (PCUSA)
Gordon MacDonald - Ordering Your World (disqualified pastor)
Ed Stetzer- "Planting Missional Churches"
Don Whitney - "Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life" - Foster promoter
Philip Yancey - "The Bible Jesus Read", "The Jesus I never Knew" , "What's So Amazing About Grace?"- liberal, pro-Homosexual - http://www.takeheed.net/SEPTEMBER2004.htm
John Stott - "The Cross of Christ" - denier of literal Hell, Anglican
Peter Drucker - "The Effective Executive" - http://www.blogger.com/
Brother Lawrence - "The Practice of the Presence of God"
Brennan Manning - "The Ragamuffin Gospel"
Dallas Willard - "The Spirit of the Disciplines"
Edward Welch - "When People Are Big" - holds to psychology/integration: http://www.blogger.com/
Remember, a denial of being Emergent doesn't mean one is not. What counts is what they actually say and do. Chandler'd website is full of emergent speak and Arminian theology (like his "gospel" page). Driscoll is the same way: he claims to not be Emergent, even though he's one of the founding fathers of the modern movement, and after distancing himself from it, he then turned around and hosted an Emergent Conference with leaders of the ECM like Karen Ward.
***Update****
I came across this Recovery program at The Villiage. While sprinkled with some Scripture, the quotes included: Quotes: CS Lewis, WCF; Celebrate Recovery Principle 7 (Rick Warren);Spiritual Disciplines/Richard Foster; JI Packer; Piper; Spiritual Disciplines (Bible reading, meditation, prayer, fasting, solitude, confession, silence, worship, fellowship, service p.36); pragmatism.
He also follows Alan Hirsch and Andy Crouch on Twitter.
Chandler was a speaker at Leadership Network's Innovation 3 Conference. Leadership Network is probably the biggest promoter of all things Emergent.
Matt Chandler: "Engaging the Culture And Deepening Your Church".
Other speakers: Nancy Ortberg, Tim Keller, Ed Stetzer, Mark Discoll.
Tim Keller, "Turning Your Biggest Idol Into Your Biggest Benefit": Apparently from the official notes here, Keller calls Peter a racist based on Gal. 2:14.
Saturday, June 06, 2009
Mark Driscoll: Women Can Teach Men
According to an article written by Denny Burk and James M. Hamilton Jr. of "The Council On Biblical Manhood and Womanhood" *:
Quote:
Driscoll's droll interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12-14 is precisely what makes his application of the text so surprising. Mars Hill Church endorses gifted (but apparently "gullible" and "easily deceived") women to lead and to teach men so long as such women are not ordained as pastor/elder. Driscoll explains, "The teaching here likely also refers to preaching and teaching as done by the elders, as every other time teaching is spoken of in the remainder of the letter it is in reference to the teaching of an elder (1 Tim 4:11, 5:7, 6:2)."34 According to Driscoll,
It is the opinion of the present writers that not only is Driscoll mistaken in his interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12, but also his application of it to the ministries of his church is a non-sequitur. Why would one allow a person from the "gullible" and "easier to deceive" sex to lead and to teach God's people? How could such a person possibly be qualified to teach and to lead when they are so easily brought under the spell of error? We are not ready to concede Driscoll's interpretation of Paul on this point.36 Yet even if we were to grant his interpretation, we believe that his praxis is hardly a legitimate implication of his exegesis.
Some reformed theologians pursue a similar line in introducing a distinction between the "special" teaching office and the "general" teaching office.37 With this distinction made, women are allowed to teach men. The problem with this among those who practice it is that Paul does not prohibit women from taking up a teaching office over men. Rather, he simply prohibits women from teaching men.
End quote.
I suppose the command for not cussing or making course jokes is as hard for Driscoll to understand as a pastor, as is the command for women to not teach men. And just how is he biblical? And why is Piper, who supposedly sees this as wrong, continue to endorse this man?
Are God's commands optional to obey? What happened to the Lordship of the Lord and the Sovereignty of God and the desire to obey HIM?
*I haven't looked over the whole site so I would just caution readers to read with discernment
Quote:
Driscoll's droll interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12-14 is precisely what makes his application of the text so surprising. Mars Hill Church endorses gifted (but apparently "gullible" and "easily deceived") women to lead and to teach men so long as such women are not ordained as pastor/elder. Driscoll explains, "The teaching here likely also refers to preaching and teaching as done by the elders, as every other time teaching is spoken of in the remainder of the letter it is in reference to the teaching of an elder (1 Tim 4:11, 5:7, 6:2)."34 According to Driscoll,
At Mars Hill we seek to encourage women to use the abilities that God has given them to their fullest extent in anything from teaching a class to leading a community group, overseeing a ministry, leading as a deacon, speaking in church, leading worship, serving communion, entering into full-time paid ministry as a member of the staff, and receiving formal theological education-or basically every opportunity in our church but the office of elder/pastor.35 Mark Driscoll, "Church Leadership," 47.
It is the opinion of the present writers that not only is Driscoll mistaken in his interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12, but also his application of it to the ministries of his church is a non-sequitur. Why would one allow a person from the "gullible" and "easier to deceive" sex to lead and to teach God's people? How could such a person possibly be qualified to teach and to lead when they are so easily brought under the spell of error? We are not ready to concede Driscoll's interpretation of Paul on this point.36 Yet even if we were to grant his interpretation, we believe that his praxis is hardly a legitimate implication of his exegesis.
Some reformed theologians pursue a similar line in introducing a distinction between the "special" teaching office and the "general" teaching office.37 With this distinction made, women are allowed to teach men. The problem with this among those who practice it is that Paul does not prohibit women from taking up a teaching office over men. Rather, he simply prohibits women from teaching men.
End quote.
I suppose the command for not cussing or making course jokes is as hard for Driscoll to understand as a pastor, as is the command for women to not teach men. And just how is he biblical? And why is Piper, who supposedly sees this as wrong, continue to endorse this man?
Are God's commands optional to obey? What happened to the Lordship of the Lord and the Sovereignty of God and the desire to obey HIM?
*I haven't looked over the whole site so I would just caution readers to read with discernment
Thursday, June 04, 2009
Harvard University: From Puritanism To Pigsty of Corruption
News excerpts:
Quote:
BOSTON (Reuters) - Harvard University is creating an endowed professorship in lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual studies, the first of its kind in the United States and reflecting a rise in sex-related academia nationwide.
The Ivy League school will invite visiting scholars to teach on sexuality and issues related to sexual minorities for one semester each, a Harvard official said on Wednesday.
While other universities have course offerings and degree programs in sexuality studies, Harvard's healthy endowment allows the professorship on the subject to be funded in perpetuity, the first university in the country to do so.
The Harvard Gay & Lesbian Caucus raised $1.5 million to fund the role, to be known as the "F.O. Matthiessen Visiting Professorship of Gender and Sexuality", named after American studies scholar and literary critic, F.O. Matthiessen.
Matthiessen, who died in 1950, chaired an undergraduate program in history and literature at Harvard, where he kept his homosexuality largely secret.
Candace Gingrich, a youth outreach manager at gay-rights advocates the Human Rights Campaign, said the new role gives students in the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community something to aspire to.
"Any time a university as renowned as Harvard feels it is important and sees it is important to have an endowed professorship in LGBT studies is recognition that it is an important issue," said Gingrich, sister of former Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives, Newt Gingrich.
End quote.
Well, if the elite says its important, well then, it MUST BE!
I didn't know that sodomy in academia was something to "aspire to". I recall God proclaim it as a downgrade to the hardest of hearts, to uttermost of rebellion and unnatural thinking and behavior of mankind.
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
See how far Harvard has fallen:
Quote:
Harvard University, which celebrated its 350th anniversary in 1986, is the oldest institution of higher learning in the United States. Founded 16 years after the arrival of the Pilgrims at Plymouth, the University has grown from nine students with a single master to an enrollment of more than 18,000 degree candidates, including undergraduates and students in 10 principal academic units.
Seven presidents of the United States – John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Theodore and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Rutherford B. Hayes, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and George W. Bush – were graduates of Harvard. Its faculty have produced more than 40 Nobel laureates.
Harvard College was established in 1636 by vote of the Great and General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony and was named for its first benefactor, John Harvard of Charlestown, a young minister who, upon his death in 1638, left his library and half his estate to the new institution. Harvard's first scholarship fund was created in 1643 with a gift from Ann Radcliffe, Lady Mowlson.
During its early years, the College offered a classic academic course based on the English university model but consistent with the prevailing Puritan philosophy of the first colonists. Although many of its early graduates became ministers in Puritan congregations throughout New England, the College was never formally affiliated with a specific religious denomination. An early brochure, published in 1643, justified the College's existence: "To advance Learning and perpetuate it to Posterity; dreading to leave an illiterate Ministry to the Churches."
Side bar: On Sept. 8, 1836, at Harvard's Bicentennial celebration, it was announced that President Josiah Quincy had found the first rough sketch of the College arms - a shield with the Latin motto "VERITAS" ("Verity" or "Truth") on three books - while researching his History of Harvard University in the College Archives. During the Bicentennial, a white banner atop a large tent in the Yard publicly displayed this design for the first time. Until Quincy's discovery, the hand-drawn sketch (from records of an Overseers meeting on Jan. 6, 1644) had been filed away and forgotten. It became the basis of the seal officially adopted by the Corporation in 1843 and still informs the version used today.
The 1708 election of John Leverett, the first president who was not also a clergyman, marked a turning of the College toward intellectual independence from Puritanism. As the College grew in the 18th and 19th centuries, the curriculum was broadened, particularly in the sciences, and the College produced or attracted a long list of famous scholars, including Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, James Russell Lowell, William James, the elder Oliver Wendell Holmes, Louis Agassiz, and Gertrude Stein.
End quote.
[Gertrude Stein was a feminist and lesbian as I recall.]
This generation is obssessed with sex: from the schools, to politics, to churches. We are becoming Corinth!
A school mainly functioning as a seminary, it then turned into a secular university and now its nothing but a liberal trash heap fit for Hell. Like many other " higher institutions of learning" it sears the students' consciences, hardens their hearts, and pumps out people who have no more sense when they leave as when they entered. Well educated? No. Well programed to wallow in the pigsty of corruption, doing nothing but mimicking their professors. That's one expensive pigsty, I must say.
The first step astray is a want of adequate faith in the divine inspiration of the sacred Scriptures. All the while a man bows to the authority of God's Word, he will not entertain any sentiment contrary to its teaching. "To the law and to the testimony," is his appeal concerning every doctrine. He esteems that holy Book, concerning all things, to be right, and therefore he hates every false way. But let a man question, or entertain low views of the inspiration and authority of the Bible, and he is without chart to guide him, and without anchor to hold him.
But when, on the other hand, reason has been exalted above revelation, and made the exponent of revelation, all kinds of errors and mischiefs have been the result...Human reason is exalted to a higher office.....
End quote.
The infestation of liberalism taught at the seminary/university level is then brought in by the pastors (and others) who infected their minds and hearts with the humanism at these places (and it can be so subtle at first). This happened in Germany when men went to the seminaries there where they taught Modernism, and then they returned to American to teach it to their congregations. This is how the Modernism era began and that is what Spurgeon was fighting in his day. Today we fight the cancer of Post-Modernism and it comes in the form of psychology (a form of philosophy which God condemns), other philosophies, Evolution, Eastern Mysticism, etc.)
"Some of God's dear people may suppose that it would be presumptuous to set themselves up as judges of what they hear or read—but that is a serious mistake, being both a false humility, and a shirking of duty. The Apostle rebuked the Hebrews because their senses (spiritual faculties) were not developed so as to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13)."
''Young people somethimes boast of how many books, and how much they have read; when, instead of boasting, they ought to be ashamed of having wasted so much time, to so little profit.".......... "I advise you, my son, in whatever you read, and most of all in reading the Bible, to remember that it is for the purpose of making you wiser and more virtuous." –John Quincy Adams
Quote:
BOSTON (Reuters) - Harvard University is creating an endowed professorship in lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual studies, the first of its kind in the United States and reflecting a rise in sex-related academia nationwide.
The Ivy League school will invite visiting scholars to teach on sexuality and issues related to sexual minorities for one semester each, a Harvard official said on Wednesday.
While other universities have course offerings and degree programs in sexuality studies, Harvard's healthy endowment allows the professorship on the subject to be funded in perpetuity, the first university in the country to do so.
The Harvard Gay & Lesbian Caucus raised $1.5 million to fund the role, to be known as the "F.O. Matthiessen Visiting Professorship of Gender and Sexuality", named after American studies scholar and literary critic, F.O. Matthiessen.
Matthiessen, who died in 1950, chaired an undergraduate program in history and literature at Harvard, where he kept his homosexuality largely secret.
Candace Gingrich, a youth outreach manager at gay-rights advocates the Human Rights Campaign, said the new role gives students in the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community something to aspire to.
"Any time a university as renowned as Harvard feels it is important and sees it is important to have an endowed professorship in LGBT studies is recognition that it is an important issue," said Gingrich, sister of former Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives, Newt Gingrich.
End quote.
Well, if the elite says its important, well then, it MUST BE!
I didn't know that sodomy in academia was something to "aspire to". I recall God proclaim it as a downgrade to the hardest of hearts, to uttermost of rebellion and unnatural thinking and behavior of mankind.
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
See how far Harvard has fallen:
Quote:
Harvard University, which celebrated its 350th anniversary in 1986, is the oldest institution of higher learning in the United States. Founded 16 years after the arrival of the Pilgrims at Plymouth, the University has grown from nine students with a single master to an enrollment of more than 18,000 degree candidates, including undergraduates and students in 10 principal academic units.
Seven presidents of the United States – John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Theodore and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Rutherford B. Hayes, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and George W. Bush – were graduates of Harvard. Its faculty have produced more than 40 Nobel laureates.
Harvard College was established in 1636 by vote of the Great and General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony and was named for its first benefactor, John Harvard of Charlestown, a young minister who, upon his death in 1638, left his library and half his estate to the new institution. Harvard's first scholarship fund was created in 1643 with a gift from Ann Radcliffe, Lady Mowlson.
During its early years, the College offered a classic academic course based on the English university model but consistent with the prevailing Puritan philosophy of the first colonists. Although many of its early graduates became ministers in Puritan congregations throughout New England, the College was never formally affiliated with a specific religious denomination. An early brochure, published in 1643, justified the College's existence: "To advance Learning and perpetuate it to Posterity; dreading to leave an illiterate Ministry to the Churches."
Side bar: On Sept. 8, 1836, at Harvard's Bicentennial celebration, it was announced that President Josiah Quincy had found the first rough sketch of the College arms - a shield with the Latin motto "VERITAS" ("Verity" or "Truth") on three books - while researching his History of Harvard University in the College Archives. During the Bicentennial, a white banner atop a large tent in the Yard publicly displayed this design for the first time. Until Quincy's discovery, the hand-drawn sketch (from records of an Overseers meeting on Jan. 6, 1644) had been filed away and forgotten. It became the basis of the seal officially adopted by the Corporation in 1843 and still informs the version used today.
The 1708 election of John Leverett, the first president who was not also a clergyman, marked a turning of the College toward intellectual independence from Puritanism. As the College grew in the 18th and 19th centuries, the curriculum was broadened, particularly in the sciences, and the College produced or attracted a long list of famous scholars, including Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, James Russell Lowell, William James, the elder Oliver Wendell Holmes, Louis Agassiz, and Gertrude Stein.
End quote.
[Gertrude Stein was a feminist and lesbian as I recall.]
This generation is obssessed with sex: from the schools, to politics, to churches. We are becoming Corinth!
A school mainly functioning as a seminary, it then turned into a secular university and now its nothing but a liberal trash heap fit for Hell. Like many other " higher institutions of learning" it sears the students' consciences, hardens their hearts, and pumps out people who have no more sense when they leave as when they entered. Well educated? No. Well programed to wallow in the pigsty of corruption, doing nothing but mimicking their professors. That's one expensive pigsty, I must say.
As Spurgeon pointed out well over 100 years ago:
But in too many cases sceptical daring seems to have taken the place of evangelical zeal, and the husks of theological speculations are preferred to the wholesome bread of gospel truth. With some the endeavor seems to be not how steadily and faithfully they can walk in the truth, but how far they can get from it. To them divine truth is like a lion or a tiger, and they give it "a wide berth." Our counsel is—Do not go too near the precipice; you may slip or fall over. Keep where the ground is firm; do not venture on the rotten ice.The first step astray is a want of adequate faith in the divine inspiration of the sacred Scriptures. All the while a man bows to the authority of God's Word, he will not entertain any sentiment contrary to its teaching. "To the law and to the testimony," is his appeal concerning every doctrine. He esteems that holy Book, concerning all things, to be right, and therefore he hates every false way. But let a man question, or entertain low views of the inspiration and authority of the Bible, and he is without chart to guide him, and without anchor to hold him.
But when, on the other hand, reason has been exalted above revelation, and made the exponent of revelation, all kinds of errors and mischiefs have been the result...Human reason is exalted to a higher office.....
End quote.
The infestation of liberalism taught at the seminary/university level is then brought in by the pastors (and others) who infected their minds and hearts with the humanism at these places (and it can be so subtle at first). This happened in Germany when men went to the seminaries there where they taught Modernism, and then they returned to American to teach it to their congregations. This is how the Modernism era began and that is what Spurgeon was fighting in his day. Today we fight the cancer of Post-Modernism and it comes in the form of psychology (a form of philosophy which God condemns), other philosophies, Evolution, Eastern Mysticism, etc.)
Too bad Christians trusted the institution, the local church, for equipping men and women to grow in Christ. Too bad they don't trust HIS ways to train up a man who is qualified to become an elder.
"Some of God's dear people may suppose that it would be presumptuous to set themselves up as judges of what they hear or read—but that is a serious mistake, being both a false humility, and a shirking of duty. The Apostle rebuked the Hebrews because their senses (spiritual faculties) were not developed so as to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13)."
''Young people somethimes boast of how many books, and how much they have read; when, instead of boasting, they ought to be ashamed of having wasted so much time, to so little profit.".......... "I advise you, my son, in whatever you read, and most of all in reading the Bible, to remember that it is for the purpose of making you wiser and more virtuous." –John Quincy Adams
God's View On Sodomy Is One Among Many, According To The Episcopalian "Church"
Excerpts from the "Christian" Post:
Quote:
The Episcopal Church has appointed a panel of theologians to prepare a paper on same-sex relationships in the life of the church.
Names of the panel members have not been released, but the chair of the Theology Committee of the Episcopal House of Bishops says the group "very intentionally represents a robust range of views on the subject and includes gay and lesbian persons."
The House of Bishops had requested that the theology committee study same-sex relationships to contribute to the listening process and discussions on homosexuality currently occurring worldwide across the Anglican Communion.
According to Parsley, the project is "designed to articulate theologically a full range of views on the matter of same-sex relationships in the church's life and to foster better understanding and respectful discernment among us."
End quote.
Yet they don't respect nor care to understand and obey God's view on homosexuality. He has no place in their corrupt group, because He has already spoken on the subject both in the OT and NT. They act as if God's Scripture not only is unclear, but not authoritative. I guess it isn't for them, to their destruction.
How many cities must be burned before they understand God's "view" of sodomy? How many ways must God say "homosexuality is damnable sin"?
Homosexuality is not in accordance with SOUND DOCTRINE:
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Quote:
The Episcopal Church has appointed a panel of theologians to prepare a paper on same-sex relationships in the life of the church.
Names of the panel members have not been released, but the chair of the Theology Committee of the Episcopal House of Bishops says the group "very intentionally represents a robust range of views on the subject and includes gay and lesbian persons."
The House of Bishops had requested that the theology committee study same-sex relationships to contribute to the listening process and discussions on homosexuality currently occurring worldwide across the Anglican Communion.
According to Parsley, the project is "designed to articulate theologically a full range of views on the matter of same-sex relationships in the church's life and to foster better understanding and respectful discernment among us."
End quote.
Yet they don't respect nor care to understand and obey God's view on homosexuality. He has no place in their corrupt group, because He has already spoken on the subject both in the OT and NT. They act as if God's Scripture not only is unclear, but not authoritative. I guess it isn't for them, to their destruction.
How many cities must be burned before they understand God's "view" of sodomy? How many ways must God say "homosexuality is damnable sin"?
Homosexuality is not in accordance with SOUND DOCTRINE:
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Wednesday, June 03, 2009
Doctrine Matters: Scripture Is Sufficient for Doctrine AND Practice
Cecil Andrews recently wrote a piece on the Post-Modern IKON group and Peter Rollins. What caught my eye was an email exchange he had with a father:
"I recently had an exchange of emails from a professing Christian father who was concerned at my article on the upcoming ‘Summer Madness’ event in Belfast where ‘emerging guru’ Brian McLaren will be the main speaker. The very way he signed off his first email spoke volumes – he wrote – Yours In Christ [the guy less concerned with doctrine and more with his children's needs]". The rest I'll quote and comment on below, but I want to look at this problem.
Doctrine and Jesus: without Scripture one can't know who the real Jesus is.
Isa 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Mat 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
The problem is a low view of Jesus Christ ("the guy"). He isn't a "guy", He is holy and righteous and Judge. His eyes are like fire, piercing the soul. HE comes with a sword to trample over His enemies. He is to be FEARED and worshipped. Unless one reads and believes the Bible, they won't have the right Jesus nor the right response to Him,nor the right Gospel.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
God Is Knowable
God revealed who He is by Scripture. His Word starts in Genesis and ends in Revelation. From the first verse to the last, God is teaching us about Himself, our sin and need of Him, salvation, creation, destruction, Hell, justification, relationships, money, lifestyles.
The Post-Modernists reject the Word then claim know one knows anything, yet they also claim, oddly, that all Christians are hypocrits because they don't live according to Scripture (see the rest of Andrews' article on IKON). This is truely foolish thinking. If they want to know God, they must accept the Bible. Yet they reject the very way God has revealed Himself, so their questioning is ridiculous. Clearly this man has been influenced by Rick Warren who says:
"Rick Warren’s gospel is never clearly described. Here is one of his statements about it: “God won’t ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?” (Warren: 34). But, doctrine does matter because our doctrine of Christ determines whether we believe in the Christ of the Bible or the Christ of Mormonism or some other religion."--Bob Dewaay
The one who rejects the Bible on any level is the one who's paths are darkened. They cannot have peace with God or of God, nor can they have a stable life. They cannot please God.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers. 4 The wicked are not so, but are like chaff that the wind drives away.
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
Cecil continues: "You can see from that, that where his children were concerned, ‘doctrine’, in other words, ‘belief’ was very much a secondary issue. I wrote back and sought to explain and share my convictions about how ‘from the beginning of time in the Garden of Eden there has been an ongoing 'Truth War'. I received a very gracious and at times open response to this email and at one point, this professing Christian father, who is involved in church-plant work, wrote – ‘I guess I have started believing that God may be as good as his Word [as in scripture] but we only see this in action and not in written word. But here is the crux of the matter: I don't have a clue. I am stumbling in the dark. I believe certain things about God and Christians and they might be justifiable but they might also be by-products of a distancing from God. I just don't know…’. This, for me, was a very real example ‘in action’ of the widespread loss of confidence, within professing Christendom, in the Bible being the inspired, inerrant and infallible living Word of the living God." (emphasis original)
Psa 119:104 Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way. 105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,
Here's the thing: they determine the Word doesn't mean what it says or say what it means ("doctrine doesn't matter"), then claim it doesn't help them ("don't have a clue"), and THEN claim Christians are hypocrits (see IKON or other ECMers). This is foolishness in its clearest form. By what standard do they judge everyone? How do they know Christians are hypocrits? How do they know God doesn't care much about doctrine? Based on what? The Bible? But they reject the Bible as knowable and True. So how do they KNOW "Christians" aren't "doing" Christianity right? And how do they know they have the right God and not the god of Mormonism or Romanism or Buddism? See the tangled mess of their unregenerate thinking? As James 1 says, doubting (which is unbelief) causes a man to be double-minded and unstable in all his ways.
Perhaps this man, at the end of his tether and seeing the ultimate vainity of the way he's been thinking (clearly revealing a hopelessness and rightly so), is beginning to see that the Bible must be true and faithful, because God is true and faithful. His Word really is connected to Who He is: if God isn't trustworthy (how does one even measure that if there's no reliable standard, aka the Bible), then Scripture isn't either. In other words the only way the Bible can be faithful and knowable and true is precisely because God is. Ps. 138:2 says God holds His name and His WORD above all else.
Mat 4:4 But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Psa 119:13 With my lips I declare all the rules of Your mouth.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Scripture, being God-breathed, is a reflection of who God is, that is why we can rely on it and know it. If God is knowable its because His Word is too. Scripture is originated by God: it comes from His mouth. If Scripture isn't true, then God is a liar.
Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, "That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged."
Joh 10:35 …and Scripture cannot be broken--
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.
Ps. 138:2… You have exalted above all things Your name and Your word.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; 8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; 9 the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
"I recently had an exchange of emails from a professing Christian father who was concerned at my article on the upcoming ‘Summer Madness’ event in Belfast where ‘emerging guru’ Brian McLaren will be the main speaker. The very way he signed off his first email spoke volumes – he wrote – Yours In Christ [the guy less concerned with doctrine and more with his children's needs]". The rest I'll quote and comment on below, but I want to look at this problem.
Doctrine and Jesus: without Scripture one can't know who the real Jesus is.
Isa 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Mat 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
The problem is a low view of Jesus Christ ("the guy"). He isn't a "guy", He is holy and righteous and Judge. His eyes are like fire, piercing the soul. HE comes with a sword to trample over His enemies. He is to be FEARED and worshipped. Unless one reads and believes the Bible, they won't have the right Jesus nor the right response to Him,nor the right Gospel.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
God Is Knowable
God revealed who He is by Scripture. His Word starts in Genesis and ends in Revelation. From the first verse to the last, God is teaching us about Himself, our sin and need of Him, salvation, creation, destruction, Hell, justification, relationships, money, lifestyles.
The Post-Modernists reject the Word then claim know one knows anything, yet they also claim, oddly, that all Christians are hypocrits because they don't live according to Scripture (see the rest of Andrews' article on IKON). This is truely foolish thinking. If they want to know God, they must accept the Bible. Yet they reject the very way God has revealed Himself, so their questioning is ridiculous. Clearly this man has been influenced by Rick Warren who says:
"Rick Warren’s gospel is never clearly described. Here is one of his statements about it: “God won’t ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?” (Warren: 34). But, doctrine does matter because our doctrine of Christ determines whether we believe in the Christ of the Bible or the Christ of Mormonism or some other religion."--Bob Dewaay
The one who rejects the Bible on any level is the one who's paths are darkened. They cannot have peace with God or of God, nor can they have a stable life. They cannot please God.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers. 4 The wicked are not so, but are like chaff that the wind drives away.
Psa 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous rules endures forever.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
God's Word Shows Us How To Live:
Doctrine leads to practice. Bad practice reveals bad doctrine. These two are intertwined. That's why Paul most often first established doctrine and THEN showed how to put it into practice. You can't practice something true (of Scripture) if you don't have, read, or believe the Scripture!
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
His Word gives us understanding so that we know Truth and hate error's ways:
Psa 119:104 Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way.Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
Cecil continues: "You can see from that, that where his children were concerned, ‘doctrine’, in other words, ‘belief’ was very much a secondary issue. I wrote back and sought to explain and share my convictions about how ‘from the beginning of time in the Garden of Eden there has been an ongoing 'Truth War'. I received a very gracious and at times open response to this email and at one point, this professing Christian father, who is involved in church-plant work, wrote – ‘I guess I have started believing that God may be as good as his Word [as in scripture] but we only see this in action and not in written word. But here is the crux of the matter: I don't have a clue. I am stumbling in the dark. I believe certain things about God and Christians and they might be justifiable but they might also be by-products of a distancing from God. I just don't know…’. This, for me, was a very real example ‘in action’ of the widespread loss of confidence, within professing Christendom, in the Bible being the inspired, inerrant and infallible living Word of the living God." (emphasis original)
Psa 119:104 Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way. 105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,
Here's the thing: they determine the Word doesn't mean what it says or say what it means ("doctrine doesn't matter"), then claim it doesn't help them ("don't have a clue"), and THEN claim Christians are hypocrits (see IKON or other ECMers). This is foolishness in its clearest form. By what standard do they judge everyone? How do they know Christians are hypocrits? How do they know God doesn't care much about doctrine? Based on what? The Bible? But they reject the Bible as knowable and True. So how do they KNOW "Christians" aren't "doing" Christianity right? And how do they know they have the right God and not the god of Mormonism or Romanism or Buddism? See the tangled mess of their unregenerate thinking? As James 1 says, doubting (which is unbelief) causes a man to be double-minded and unstable in all his ways.
Perhaps this man, at the end of his tether and seeing the ultimate vainity of the way he's been thinking (clearly revealing a hopelessness and rightly so), is beginning to see that the Bible must be true and faithful, because God is true and faithful. His Word really is connected to Who He is: if God isn't trustworthy (how does one even measure that if there's no reliable standard, aka the Bible), then Scripture isn't either. In other words the only way the Bible can be faithful and knowable and true is precisely because God is. Ps. 138:2 says God holds His name and His WORD above all else.
Mat 4:4 But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Psa 119:13 With my lips I declare all the rules of Your mouth.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Scripture, being God-breathed, is a reflection of who God is, that is why we can rely on it and know it. If God is knowable its because His Word is too. Scripture is originated by God: it comes from His mouth. If Scripture isn't true, then God is a liar.
Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, "That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged."
Joh 10:35 …and Scripture cannot be broken--
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.
Ps. 138:2… You have exalted above all things Your name and Your word.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; 8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; 9 the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
If you find yourself sitting in the seat of scoffers, or doubting God's Word (echoing the voice of Satan, saying "Has God said?"), I would urge you to read all of Ps. 19 and Ps. 119, listing all the things it says about the Word ("law", "precepts", "testimony"). This is God's stamp of approval and elevation of the perfection and sufficiency of His Word. After all, it comes out of HIS mouth.
Tuesday, June 02, 2009
Liberalism Brought To Us By Christians, Conservatives, and the GOP
A quick shout-out to the Conservatives and Christians for making this happen (yes, my keyboard is dripping with sarcasm):
News for California:
"California can prohibit public schools from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or identity, a judge ruled Monday, rejecting an invasion-of-privacy claim by a conservative group that said a new state law would force school officials to allow boys into girls' locker rooms.
The law, which took effect last year, added sexual orientation and gender identity to a list of categories in which schools may not discriminate in teaching or instructional materials. Other categories include race, sex and national origin.
In Monday's ruling, Judge Shelleyanne Chang of Sacramento County Superior Court said opponents of the law had failed to show that their clients' privacy had been invaded, or was likely to be invaded, or that school officials would be unable to determine the gender of students who wanted to use a restroom."
However, they CAN descriminate on religion (this will come to CA too because this is case law now that can be cited):
Quote:
In the court battles over prayer in school, the cutting-edge cases are increasingly coming from the kindergarten classrooms.
The latest such case, Busch v. Marple Newtown School District, attracted six friend-of-the-court briefs when it went before the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and resulted in a 48-page decision with all three judges on the panel weighing in.
Voting 2-1, the court rejected the claims of the mother of a kindergarten student who said public school officials violated her First Amendment rights when they prohibited her from reading verses from the Bible -- which she said was her son Wesley's favorite book -- during a program called "All About Me" week.
According to court papers, students in Wesley Busch's class were given a chance to share information about themselves, first by bringing in a poster that illustrated their interests and later by having their parents come in to read from their favorite books.
Wesley made a poster with his mother that included photographs of himself with his hamster and with his family, as well as a picture of his church captioned: "I love to go to the House of the Lord."
End quote.
Hypocrisy and indoctrination continues. But Christians, think about it: who you vote for as governor determines who he appoints as judges, which in turn determines these issues.
Schwarzenegger was voted in by Republican Christians and Conservatives and it was he who signed into law the liberal "non-descrimination of gender/sexual orientation" in 2007, leading to schools the open door for boys to use girls' restrooms and the elimination of "mom and dad/mother/father" words in school textbooks. Now we also have the mandatory "gay day" for k-5th graders in Alameda County.
The compromise these Christians and/or Conservatives made not only did not help stop the war against liberalism, it helped it come in.
Thanks.
News for California:
"California can prohibit public schools from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or identity, a judge ruled Monday, rejecting an invasion-of-privacy claim by a conservative group that said a new state law would force school officials to allow boys into girls' locker rooms.
The law, which took effect last year, added sexual orientation and gender identity to a list of categories in which schools may not discriminate in teaching or instructional materials. Other categories include race, sex and national origin.
In Monday's ruling, Judge Shelleyanne Chang of Sacramento County Superior Court said opponents of the law had failed to show that their clients' privacy had been invaded, or was likely to be invaded, or that school officials would be unable to determine the gender of students who wanted to use a restroom."
However, they CAN descriminate on religion (this will come to CA too because this is case law now that can be cited):
Quote:
In the court battles over prayer in school, the cutting-edge cases are increasingly coming from the kindergarten classrooms.
The latest such case, Busch v. Marple Newtown School District, attracted six friend-of-the-court briefs when it went before the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and resulted in a 48-page decision with all three judges on the panel weighing in.
Voting 2-1, the court rejected the claims of the mother of a kindergarten student who said public school officials violated her First Amendment rights when they prohibited her from reading verses from the Bible -- which she said was her son Wesley's favorite book -- during a program called "All About Me" week.
According to court papers, students in Wesley Busch's class were given a chance to share information about themselves, first by bringing in a poster that illustrated their interests and later by having their parents come in to read from their favorite books.
Wesley made a poster with his mother that included photographs of himself with his hamster and with his family, as well as a picture of his church captioned: "I love to go to the House of the Lord."
End quote.
Hypocrisy and indoctrination continues. But Christians, think about it: who you vote for as governor determines who he appoints as judges, which in turn determines these issues.
Schwarzenegger was voted in by Republican Christians and Conservatives and it was he who signed into law the liberal "non-descrimination of gender/sexual orientation" in 2007, leading to schools the open door for boys to use girls' restrooms and the elimination of "mom and dad/mother/father" words in school textbooks. Now we also have the mandatory "gay day" for k-5th graders in Alameda County.
The compromise these Christians and/or Conservatives made not only did not help stop the war against liberalism, it helped it come in.
Thanks.
Questions for the Liberals: their hypocrisy is already showing
When the Columbine boys terrorized their highschool and murdered many kids and injured others, we were told by the Liberals that we needed to "understand" where they were coming from and not blame them.
Today most people are spewing hate and intolerance of the murderer of Tiller the Killer.
My question is: where's the tolerance and understanding by the Left of the man who shot Tiller?
My other question is: will the Liberals count Tiller's killer as an extremist that doesn't represent Conservatives or Christianity (the real religion of true peace), just as they also say the Muslim Terrorists are also extremists and don't represent Islam, "the religion of peace"?
Today most people are spewing hate and intolerance of the murderer of Tiller the Killer.
My question is: where's the tolerance and understanding by the Left of the man who shot Tiller?
My other question is: will the Liberals count Tiller's killer as an extremist that doesn't represent Conservatives or Christianity (the real religion of true peace), just as they also say the Muslim Terrorists are also extremists and don't represent Islam, "the religion of peace"?
Tiller the Killer’s abomination of a “church”
1Jo 2:4 Whoever says "I know Him" but does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Tiller the Killer’s abomination of a “church”
This statement is absolutely horrific; in part it says:
Quote:
The Reformation Lutheran Church family is shocked and deeply saddened by the violent murder of Dr. George Tiller, a longtime member of our congregation, that occurred in our church home May 31.
Our congregation strives to be a safe place for all people. We deplore the violence that took place within the walls of our church. Further, we reject any notion that violence against another human being is an acceptable way to resolve differences over any issue. We must always strive to engage in peaceful discussion. Our faith calls us to this. Our humanity demands it.
In the wake of this tragic event, our deepest concern is for the family of George Tiller. We ask the community to join us in prayer for them as they face the difficult days ahead. Our hearts ache with them. We also ask that the family’s privacy be respected.
..In this time of uncertainty, we stand firm in the promises of Jesus Christ: forgiveness, hope, love, and new life, even from death. We pray for healing and peace to be restore…
The Rev. Lowell Michelson
The Rev. Kristin Neitzel
Reformation Lutheran Church
End quote.
Clearly this is not God’s church:
1. They have a woman pastor which violates one of the clearest commands in Scripture: 1Tim2: 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
2. They allowed this baby murderer to be a member, unrepentant, undisicplined. Likely money had a part of it as is their feminism.
3. They endorsed and supported this man even after his death.
4. They don’t call HIS murders “violent” or “tragic”.
5. They are liars: “Further, we reject any notion that violence against another human being is an acceptable way to resolve differences over any issue.” Apparenly they don’t reject the violence against the babies to resolve an unwanted pregnancy and fornication.
6. They have no clue about peace. Abortion rips not only a baby apart piece by piece, but it rips a woman’s soul. What they really want is justification for their damnable practices, not truly godly peace. That would require salvation.
This is what I mean when I say that professing Christians mourn MORE over the loss of a serial killer than the thousands of lives he slaughters.
THIS IS WHY GOD’S JUDGMENT WILL BEGIN WITH THE CHURCHES WHO PROFESS HIS NAME BUT JUSTIFY SIN.
These people have no fear of God. Do they not see that God is judging them?
Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?
1Jo 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with Him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Tiller the Killer’s abomination of a “church”
This statement is absolutely horrific; in part it says:
Quote:
The Reformation Lutheran Church family is shocked and deeply saddened by the violent murder of Dr. George Tiller, a longtime member of our congregation, that occurred in our church home May 31.
Our congregation strives to be a safe place for all people. We deplore the violence that took place within the walls of our church. Further, we reject any notion that violence against another human being is an acceptable way to resolve differences over any issue. We must always strive to engage in peaceful discussion. Our faith calls us to this. Our humanity demands it.
In the wake of this tragic event, our deepest concern is for the family of George Tiller. We ask the community to join us in prayer for them as they face the difficult days ahead. Our hearts ache with them. We also ask that the family’s privacy be respected.
..In this time of uncertainty, we stand firm in the promises of Jesus Christ: forgiveness, hope, love, and new life, even from death. We pray for healing and peace to be restore…
The Rev. Lowell Michelson
The Rev. Kristin Neitzel
Reformation Lutheran Church
End quote.
Clearly this is not God’s church:
1. They have a woman pastor which violates one of the clearest commands in Scripture: 1Tim2: 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
2. They allowed this baby murderer to be a member, unrepentant, undisicplined. Likely money had a part of it as is their feminism.
3. They endorsed and supported this man even after his death.
4. They don’t call HIS murders “violent” or “tragic”.
5. They are liars: “Further, we reject any notion that violence against another human being is an acceptable way to resolve differences over any issue.” Apparenly they don’t reject the violence against the babies to resolve an unwanted pregnancy and fornication.
6. They have no clue about peace. Abortion rips not only a baby apart piece by piece, but it rips a woman’s soul. What they really want is justification for their damnable practices, not truly godly peace. That would require salvation.
This is what I mean when I say that professing Christians mourn MORE over the loss of a serial killer than the thousands of lives he slaughters.
THIS IS WHY GOD’S JUDGMENT WILL BEGIN WITH THE CHURCHES WHO PROFESS HIS NAME BUT JUSTIFY SIN.
These people have no fear of God. Do they not see that God is judging them?
Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?
1Jo 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with Him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Monday, June 01, 2009
Obama's Outrage: Not For the Baby's Tiller Killed
News:
Quote:
Late-term abortionist George Tiller was shot and killed this morning as he walked into his Wichita, Kan., church to attend Sunday services.
Tiller was a controversial figure in the abortion debate, accused on 19 counts of illegally aborting viable babies in violation of a state law that requires a second physician – without legal or financial ties to the abortionist – sign off on the procedure once the unborn child
The Wichita Eagle reports Tiller was shot just after 10 a.m. at Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was a member.
Even President Obama released a statement: "I am shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller as he attended church services this morning," said Obama. "However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence."
End quote.
How about the millions murdered by abortionsts and the dozens by Tiller? Where's the outrage with THAT?
Where's the outrage of the four men who planned to kill Americans in NY last month?
Where's the outrage against terrorism?
Obama is "outraged" only at certain things. He is pro-abortion, so a baby killer is a good thing; a dead baby killer is "outrageous". Unbelievable.
Murder is wrong, and Tiller should've gone through the court system of course, but Obama's lack of "outrage" over the bigger issues is sick .
Quote:
Late-term abortionist George Tiller was shot and killed this morning as he walked into his Wichita, Kan., church to attend Sunday services.
Tiller was a controversial figure in the abortion debate, accused on 19 counts of illegally aborting viable babies in violation of a state law that requires a second physician – without legal or financial ties to the abortionist – sign off on the procedure once the unborn child
The Wichita Eagle reports Tiller was shot just after 10 a.m. at Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was a member.
Even President Obama released a statement: "I am shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller as he attended church services this morning," said Obama. "However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence."
End quote.
How about the millions murdered by abortionsts and the dozens by Tiller? Where's the outrage with THAT?
Where's the outrage of the four men who planned to kill Americans in NY last month?
Where's the outrage against terrorism?
Obama is "outraged" only at certain things. He is pro-abortion, so a baby killer is a good thing; a dead baby killer is "outrageous". Unbelievable.
Murder is wrong, and Tiller should've gone through the court system of course, but Obama's lack of "outrage" over the bigger issues is sick .
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