A revisit to an excellent article written n 2009: Chillin' With False Teachers: Another View by Ingrid Schlueter:
In part says:
Rick Warren has been on a PR campaign to win over his critics for some time now. A year ago, I and other writers who have been exposing the man-centered false teachings of Rick Warren and his rejection of biblical evangelism (going to synagogues and mosques to tell them how to use Purpose-Driven methods to grow) were personally invited on an all-expenses paid trip to Saddleback to meet with Warren. Apparently, the thinking was that if we could just meet Rick, encounter his magnetic and winning personality, be impressed with his fabulous church campus and personal importance, we would tone down our rhetoric and cease to be critics. I personally turned down the invitation. A man who has sold as many books as Rick Warren, features his sermons online and who has been virtually omnipresent in Christian and secular media in the last few years does not need to explain his teachings in person. I am not interested in Rick Warren’s personality, charm or expensive facilities. I do not object to the man on personal grounds. I object to Rick Warren based on what he has taught and written, because it does not line up with Scripture. This is essential to understand.
Rick Warren’s defenders, like the Reformed blogger in question, like to protray Warren critics as having a personal axe to grind with the Purpose-Driven author and as being harsh, unfair and unloving. We are painted as portraying Rick Warren as some sort of red-caped fiend, permanently surrounded by a sulfurous cloud, demonic laughter coming out of his mouth. What nonsense. Of course, Rick Warren is a congenial, friendly guy who is no doubt charming to be next to at a dinner gathering. He would make a great golf partner, host at a BBQ and, no doubt, would be the life of any party. He is likely compassionate, a good neighbor and he would stop to help you if you had a flat tire on a lonely highway. Then again, I could say the same for my Mormon neighbor, or the Hindu family that lives down the street, or the Unitarians up the block.
The people I have worked with over the years in exposing Purpose-Driven’s false teachings have not been interested in Rick’s personality. They have consistently addressed Rick’s teachings, line by line. These are men such as Pastor Bob DeWaay, who has not only met with Rick personally, but has taken his teachings and held them up to the light of Scripture in his excellent book, Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose-Driven Movement, or Joseph Farah, a newsman who has corresponded with Rick Warren over his outrageous role as apologist for Syria and North Korea, or Chris Rosebrough who sat in a room at Saddleback with Rick Warren and personally discussed the specifics of Warren’s false teachings. DeWaay, Farah and Rosebrough were not interested in Rick’s personality. They focused on his teachings.
Warren, after these meetings, is unchanged. He recently addressed a Muslim convention and never once preached Christ crucified. He instead invited the followers of Allah to embark on a joint campaign with Christians to solve the world’s social ills. Warren continues to advise non-Christian religious groups how to grow their cause using his own Purpose-Driven methodology.
While the Reformed blogger prides himself on being able to hand bouquets to Mr. Warren despite their disagreements on certain issues, the tragic spiritual reality remains. I have heard for years from Purpose-Driven refugees whose churches have been destroyed by the teachings of Rick Warren. There are spiritual victims who limp off into the night, wondering what in the world happened to the churches they have loved and supported for years. No one has done greater damage to the true Gospel in the American evangelical church than Rick Warren with his man-centered teachings and emphasis on works, churches driven by entertainment to please the unregenerate and draw large crowds, his abandonment of biblical evangelism in favor of a social gospel, his de-emphasis on sound doctrine, and his participation with international political organizations who openly work for inter-spiritual apostasy.
From Crosstalk Blog.
Again I say, as I did last year, well said! And look how far we've now come? Now Piper, who clearly has a larger following than Challies (that's just so wrong anyway), has invited and is defiantly defending Rick Warren--as are many Reformers now as they follow the Pied Piper. You think it can't get any worse? Bet you said that last year.
Just wait.
Showing posts with label Tim Challies. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Tim Challies. Show all posts
Thursday, April 15, 2010
Wednesday, April 07, 2010
Phil Johnson , Michael Horton,and John Piper: respect and restrain for treason
"While our guest Phil Johnson is extremely concerned over John Piper’s discernment in inviting Rick Warren to speak at his 2010 Desiring God National Conference, he is equally concerned and dismayed over the slanderous reactions of some brethren who deem Piper himself to be a heretic, or worse, a non-Christian, over this news."
"“I admire Rick Warren’s zeal for reaching non-Christians and concern for global challenges. I respect him for giving away much of his income for charitable purposes.“At the same time, I believe that his message distorts the gospel and that he is contributing to the human-centered pragmatism that is eroding the proper ministry and mission of the church… While I applaud his concern for social justice, I am concerned that he confuses the law with the gospel and the work of Christians in their vocations (obeying the Great Commandment) with the work of Christ through his church in its ministry of Word and sacrament (the Great Commission)…"
~ Michael Horton of "The White Horse Inn" Source
Go here for Johnson's praise of Piper despite Piper's inclusion of Warren.
**Update*
I'm going to include Tim Challies into this group, since he, too is a "Reformer" and thinks Rick Warren is a brother in the Lord.
Balanced = not separating from a false shepherd like Piper who has, over the years repeatedly defiantly promoted and defended ungodly, disqualified men at the pulpit.
I have no respect for men who do this or support men who do. To be merely concerned is not enough. To applaud and respect a man who deceives millions, who has hatred for the Gospel, is treason and disgusting. What is there to respect and applaud? That he lies about Jesus? All the "works" Warren promotes are earning the man HELL. What's to applaud about that? Warren does it with wrong motives and a false Jesus.
If Piper is not a heretic, he's certainly a heretic-loving, heretic hand-holding, heretic approving man! What does God say about that?
2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
People fall over backwards to excuse or lessen the horror of what Piper has continued to do over the years, and in doing so are sharing in the wickedness of promoting false brothers and teachers.
How is this holding faithfully to the Word as taught? How is this living out what you "claim" you believe? How is this love and loyalty to Christ Jesus and HIS sheep, when you merely disagree with a shepherd who actively brings in and defends the wolves?
Unless you don't see these men as wolves.
So here's the question: do you understand that Rick Warren, Doug Wilson, Mark Driscoll, and Paul Tripp are false teachers?
Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Phil Johnson and Michael Horton are not only dividing from the Truth on this, he's rejecting what he himself posted recently via Spurgeon:
"According to modern efficiency he ought to have said, "Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the thought was original, and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless, he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms."
I'm telling you right now folks; Piper doesn't really believe in the doctrines he claims. Had he, he would not continually bring to your listening ear and your mind false men who corrupt the Gospel, demote Scripture, and justify all manner of behavior under "liberty" and "spirituality". A man who is convinced by the Spirit of the truths of Scripture can see nor bear any other view for all other views are false and are not of Christ, which bring no spiritual food to the soul.
Time to let go of Piper. He's had time to repent and instead he holds fast in his pride and arrogance (while claiming to have pride issues), defiantly promoting and fellowshipping with false brothers. Its been FIVE YEARS at least! WAKE UP.
How does this not cause you to mourn? How can you have such distain for the PURITY of the Gospel and His people and His Word? Holding hands with treasonous men IS TREASON!
"“I admire Rick Warren’s zeal for reaching non-Christians and concern for global challenges. I respect him for giving away much of his income for charitable purposes.“At the same time, I believe that his message distorts the gospel and that he is contributing to the human-centered pragmatism that is eroding the proper ministry and mission of the church… While I applaud his concern for social justice, I am concerned that he confuses the law with the gospel and the work of Christians in their vocations (obeying the Great Commandment) with the work of Christ through his church in its ministry of Word and sacrament (the Great Commission)…"
~ Michael Horton of "The White Horse Inn" Source
Go here for Johnson's praise of Piper despite Piper's inclusion of Warren.
**Update*
I'm going to include Tim Challies into this group, since he, too is a "Reformer" and thinks Rick Warren is a brother in the Lord.
Balanced = not separating from a false shepherd like Piper who has, over the years repeatedly defiantly promoted and defended ungodly, disqualified men at the pulpit.
I have no respect for men who do this or support men who do. To be merely concerned is not enough. To applaud and respect a man who deceives millions, who has hatred for the Gospel, is treason and disgusting. What is there to respect and applaud? That he lies about Jesus? All the "works" Warren promotes are earning the man HELL. What's to applaud about that? Warren does it with wrong motives and a false Jesus.
If Piper is not a heretic, he's certainly a heretic-loving, heretic hand-holding, heretic approving man! What does God say about that?
2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
People fall over backwards to excuse or lessen the horror of what Piper has continued to do over the years, and in doing so are sharing in the wickedness of promoting false brothers and teachers.
How is this holding faithfully to the Word as taught? How is this living out what you "claim" you believe? How is this love and loyalty to Christ Jesus and HIS sheep, when you merely disagree with a shepherd who actively brings in and defends the wolves?
Unless you don't see these men as wolves.
So here's the question: do you understand that Rick Warren, Doug Wilson, Mark Driscoll, and Paul Tripp are false teachers?
Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Phil Johnson and Michael Horton are not only dividing from the Truth on this, he's rejecting what he himself posted recently via Spurgeon:
"According to modern efficiency he ought to have said, "Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the thought was original, and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless, he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms."
I'm telling you right now folks; Piper doesn't really believe in the doctrines he claims. Had he, he would not continually bring to your listening ear and your mind false men who corrupt the Gospel, demote Scripture, and justify all manner of behavior under "liberty" and "spirituality". A man who is convinced by the Spirit of the truths of Scripture can see nor bear any other view for all other views are false and are not of Christ, which bring no spiritual food to the soul.
Time to let go of Piper. He's had time to repent and instead he holds fast in his pride and arrogance (while claiming to have pride issues), defiantly promoting and fellowshipping with false brothers. Its been FIVE YEARS at least! WAKE UP.
How does this not cause you to mourn? How can you have such distain for the PURITY of the Gospel and His people and His Word? Holding hands with treasonous men IS TREASON!
Tim Challies: Rick Warren Loves The Lord? Wrong!
2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
"While I don’t doubt that Rick Warren loves the church and loves the Lord, neither do I doubt that he does harm to the people and to the Name he loves so much. To invite him to this conference is to downplay all of the harm brought about by his unbiblical and pragmatic style of ministry." ~ Tim Challies
If Warren is teaching a “gospel” that is void of essential truth...and he does
If Rick Warren teaches a “gospel” that makes man the center and not Christ…and he does
If Warren is promoting Easter Mysticism…and he does
If Rick Warren promotes Roman Catholicism…and he does
If Rick Warren shares the platform with homosexuals and their organizations…and he does
If Rick Warren shares the pulpit with Word of Faith heretics…and he does
If Rick Warren promotes the Emergent Church Movement…and he does
If Rick Warren lied about his Syrian trip…and he did
If Rick Warren approves of women pastors…and he has
If Rick Warren steers his followers away from studying Scripture…and he does
If Rick Warren distorts and twists Bible verses taking them out of context and misapplying them…and he does... (go here for the full list and links)
....then the man is a false teacher. 2 Peter 3: 16b “ There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
A wolfe isn't a sheep. Warren doesn't preach the Lord of Scripture nor His gospel.
Challies has neither wisdom nor discernment, and refuses to seperate from false teachers. He finds "truth" in everyone it seems. This isn't charity nor grace. This is treason. He's as bad as Piper.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Such harsh but necessary words of separation and rejection of false teachers comes from the Apostle of Love.
I would suggest Challies take Spurgeon's words to heart (Pink and Tozer said very similar things as well):
"I have not much patience with a certain class of Christians nowadays who will hear anybody preach so long as they can say, "He is very clever, a fine preacher, a man of genius, a born orator." Is cleverness to make false doctrine palatable? Why, sirs, to me the ability of a man who preaches error is my sorrow rather than my admiration.I cannot endure false doctrine, however neatly it may be put before me. Would you have me eat poisoned meat because the dish is of the choicest ware? It makes me indignant when I hear another gospel put before the people with enticing words, by men who would fain make merchandise of souls; and I marvel at those who have soft words for such deceivers.
According to modern efficiency he ought to have said, "Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the thought was original, and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless, he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms."
~ Spurgeon from "Under Constraint," Sunday morning 28 April 1878 at the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London
1Th 2:5 For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed--God is witness. 6 Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.
Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Calling Warren a brother in the Lord when the man teaches a false gospel, is man-centered, has a gathering of Goats not sheep, praises himself, promotes false religions and homosexuality, is treason. Its disloyal to Christ Jesus and the Gospel. Shame to anyone who would do so. They seek the approval of man, not God, and put up easily with the wolves and call it love. God calls is sin.
"While I don’t doubt that Rick Warren loves the church and loves the Lord, neither do I doubt that he does harm to the people and to the Name he loves so much. To invite him to this conference is to downplay all of the harm brought about by his unbiblical and pragmatic style of ministry." ~ Tim Challies
If Warren is teaching a “gospel” that is void of essential truth...and he does
If Rick Warren teaches a “gospel” that makes man the center and not Christ…and he does
If Warren is promoting Easter Mysticism…and he does
If Rick Warren promotes Roman Catholicism…and he does
If Rick Warren shares the platform with homosexuals and their organizations…and he does
If Rick Warren shares the pulpit with Word of Faith heretics…and he does
If Rick Warren promotes the Emergent Church Movement…and he does
If Rick Warren lied about his Syrian trip…and he did
If Rick Warren approves of women pastors…and he has
If Rick Warren steers his followers away from studying Scripture…and he does
If Rick Warren distorts and twists Bible verses taking them out of context and misapplying them…and he does... (go here for the full list and links)
....then the man is a false teacher. 2 Peter 3: 16b “ There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
A wolfe isn't a sheep. Warren doesn't preach the Lord of Scripture nor His gospel.
Challies has neither wisdom nor discernment, and refuses to seperate from false teachers. He finds "truth" in everyone it seems. This isn't charity nor grace. This is treason. He's as bad as Piper.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Such harsh but necessary words of separation and rejection of false teachers comes from the Apostle of Love.
I would suggest Challies take Spurgeon's words to heart (Pink and Tozer said very similar things as well):
"I have not much patience with a certain class of Christians nowadays who will hear anybody preach so long as they can say, "He is very clever, a fine preacher, a man of genius, a born orator." Is cleverness to make false doctrine palatable? Why, sirs, to me the ability of a man who preaches error is my sorrow rather than my admiration.I cannot endure false doctrine, however neatly it may be put before me. Would you have me eat poisoned meat because the dish is of the choicest ware? It makes me indignant when I hear another gospel put before the people with enticing words, by men who would fain make merchandise of souls; and I marvel at those who have soft words for such deceivers.
According to modern efficiency he ought to have said, "Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the thought was original, and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless, he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms."
~ Spurgeon from "Under Constraint," Sunday morning 28 April 1878 at the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London
1Th 2:5 For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed--God is witness. 6 Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.
Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Calling Warren a brother in the Lord when the man teaches a false gospel, is man-centered, has a gathering of Goats not sheep, praises himself, promotes false religions and homosexuality, is treason. Its disloyal to Christ Jesus and the Gospel. Shame to anyone who would do so. They seek the approval of man, not God, and put up easily with the wolves and call it love. God calls is sin.
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