JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLIARDISM

Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries reports:

Quote:

Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?” (Amos 3:3)

The Lord Will Always See Through Anyone’s Attempt At ”File Cabinet Orthodoxy”

As I said in previous AM posts such as Acts 29 Network And Reformed Counter Reformation Spirituality?and Acts 29 Pastor Matt Chandler On Being A Reformed Charismatic, in my estimation, there’s very good reason for concern as these people are rapidly growing in popularity, and in influence within the younger sector of the Reformed Camp; blessed as they are by Dr. John Piper, who’s seen by some as a “pioneer” of this New Calvinism.[1]

So now you have the backdrop as to why I believe it’s become necessary to begin looking more closely at what appears to be a form of postmodern Calvinism in that camp; one which professes Reformation theology while, at the same time, also embracing corrupt Counter Reformation spirituality. It just so happens that today I was again sent a link to a book review by Dr. Gary Gilley, pastor of Southern View Chapel, where he looks at Dr. Piper’s When I Don’t Desire God.
In his review Dr. Gilley brings out his own concerns with some of the more curious teaching of Dr. John Piper:

Finally, Piper quotes favorably from a very disturbing stable of authors: Dietrich Bonhoeffer (popular liberal theologian, who, by the way, was executed not for his faith in Christ, but for his part in an assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler) (p. 90), Dallas Willard (leader in the unbiblical spiritual formation movement) (p. 119), G.K. Chesterton (Roman Catholic author) (p. 196), and Richard Foster (father and main promoter of the infiltration of Roman Catholic mysticism into evangelical circles) (pp. 192-193). He also speaks twice of the “dark night of the soul” which comes from counter-reformation Catholic mystic St. John of the Cross (pp. 217, 229).

Most disturbing is Foster’s quote calling for “new prophets to arise in our day” to which Piper responds, “And when they arise, one way that we fight for joy in God is to read what they write” (p. 193). After authoring a book which majors on pointing us to the Bible in our fight for joy, it is disconcerting to now read of an encouragement to read the words of modern prophets; and coming from Foster’s perspective and Piper’s theology on prophets, they are both referring to extrabiblical revelation through present-day prophets). (Online source)

Most disturbing is right; you know e.g. from my articles such as Steve Gladen, Saddleback Church Small Groups, And Quaker Mystic Spirituality and Saddleback Church, Rick Warren, And Spiritual Disciplinesthat the Emerging Church would end up being a Trojan Horse; one which squishy evanjellyfish leaders would bring right into their own camp, even though it’s the vehicle from which this spurious CSM—a romanticized version of the Counter Reformation (hello!) spirituality of the apostate Roman Catholic Church—would be unloaded. You should know that the EC has been pawning off this spurious CSM for years as so-called Spiritual Formation.

I’ve also explained to you it happens to be an incontrovertible fact that the main purveyors of CSM would be the Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster, along with Southern Baptist ministerDallas Willard; whom many people don’t seem to realize is quite literally Foster’s spiritual twin and teaches, and practices, the exact same things. You may recall that I’ve also told you, in no uncertain terms, it’s well past time for evangelical leaders to begin recognizing the inclusive, and increasingly universal, fruit of this disgusting spiritual skubalon of a vertible cult of Foster-Willardism.

Yet as we look in the library of Bethlehem Baptist Church where John Piper is pastor we find Richard Foster, Prayer Finding the Heart’s True Home...

In his The Dangers of Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Disciplines, a thorough, and Biblical, dismantling of Willard’s twisting of God’s Word in the book above, Christian apologist Bob DeWaay carefully shows us that on one hand Dallas Willard admits these so-called spiritual disciplines are not taught in the Bible, but then on the other, he does try to teach Foster-Willardism’s quasi-Quaker and Roman Catholic mysticism is actually found in Matthew 11:29-30; where Jesus says to us — “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Obviously, on the face of this text we don’t see any semi-ascetic so-called spiritual disciplines; Willard instead imports them into this passage of the Bible.

End quote.

For the entire article, which includes Bethlehem Baptist Church's webpages which show them offering New Age Contemplative authors, along with more information and footnotes go here.

For information I have written about regarding John Piper, go here.

The Ties That Bind: Books that Rick Warren's Saddleback Recommends

Saddleback Community's recommended reading for "Spiritual Formation" (Emergentspeak):

The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

God's Power to Change Your Life by Rick Warren

Renovation of the Heart by Dallas Willard

The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning

Abba's Child by Brennan Manning

How People Grow by Henry Could and John Townsend

Chasing Daylight by Erwin McManus

Seeds of Hope by Henri Nouwen

Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire by Jim Cymbala

What's So Amazing About Grace by Philip Yancey

The Journey of Desire by John Eldrege

Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas

Sacred Romance by Brent Curtis and John Eldredge


Unbiblical authors for an unbiblical church. Purpose Driven via Emergent. Error upon Error.

A.W. Pink said in part:

"Take heed what you hear" and read! More than forty years ago the saintly Adolph Saphir wrote, "I think the fewer books we read—the better. It is like times of cholera, when we should only drink filtered water." What would he say if he were on earth today and glanced over the deadly poison sent forth by the heterodox, and the lifeless rubbish put out by the orthodox? Christian reader, if you value the health of your soul, cease hearing and quit reading all that is lifeless, unctionless, powerless, no matter what prominent or popular name be attached thereto. Life is too short to waste valuable time on that which does not profit. Ninety-nine out of every hundred of the religious books, booklets, and magazines now being published, are not worth the paper on which they are printed!

To turn away from the lifeless preachers and publishers of the day—may involve a real cross. Your motives will be misconstrued, your words perverted, and your actions misinterpreted. The sharp arrows of false report will be directed against you. You will be called proud and self-righteous, because you refuse to fellowship empty professors. You will be termed censorious and bitter—if you condemn in plain speech—the subtle delusions of Satan. You will be dubbed narrow-minded and uncharitable, because you refuse to join in singing the praises of the "great" and "popular" men of the day. More and more, you will be made to painfully realize—that the path which leads unto eternal life is "narrow" and that FEW there are who find it. May the Lord be pleased to grant unto each of us—the hearing ear and obedient heart! "Take heed what you hear" and read!

End quote.

Summary of Piper Endorsing Rick Warren Before And After His Teaching at DGC

Piper defends why he invited Warren to teach at DGC: Here Warren tells Piper what he knows Piper needs to hear in order to keep the speaking engagement. What Piper says Warren told him is actually untrue (I have evidence to the contrary for many of the claims made in this video: ).

Mike Ratliff correctly identifies Warren as a heretic who taught pelagianism at DGC.


Q&A from DGC after Warren taught: :

Quote:

1. Can you give us your initial reflections on the message we just heard from Rick Warren?

Burk Parsons: I saw a man with character and with simple, childlike dependence on Christ.

John Piper: "An unbelievable communicator with incredible application. Be encouraged and relax with who you are, and give it all to Jesus while learning all you can from Rick."

8. What would you say to our "non-thinkers" who are here tonight? Surely the conference isn’t made up completely of those who consider themselves "thinkers," right?Piper: There are people in here who love to think and there are others who don’t like to think. This conference is a pain in the rear end to them. They’re just here to see Warren and Piper fight. Here’s how I would say the question: What do you have to say to people who don’t want to think?

End quote.

After the whole conference in "'Christianity'Today" interview:

Quote:

You invited Rick Warren; would you say he exemplifies "thinking"?

No, I don't think he exactly exemplifies what I'm after. But he is biblical. He quoted 50 Scriptures from memory. Unbelievable, his mind is Vesuvius. So I asked him what impact reading Jonathan Edwards had on him. What these authors like Karl Barth and Edwards do for him is give him a surge of theological energy that then comes through his wiring. What I wanted to do with Rick is force him to talk about thinking so pragmatists out there can say, "A lot of thinking goes into what he does."

You received some negative feedback for inviting him.

It was real risky. I don't even know if I did the right thing. If somebody said, "Are you sure you should have invited him?" "No." I think the first thing I'd say—maybe the only thing—is I think he's been slandered. I think we probably need to work harder at getting him right.

End quote.

Scot McKnight At Rick Warren's Church

Latest from Lighthouse Trails Research on Warren's Apologetic Weekend which offered Greg Koukl, Scot McKnight, and Philip Yancy. Here's the part on McKnight:

Quote:

In McKnight’s books Embracing Grace: A Gospel for All of Us (with an endorsement by Brian McLaren on the front cover and McLaren references within) and in his book A Community Called Atonement, McKnight doesn’t necessarily reject penal substitutionary atonement (as does McLaren) but says there are many ways of viewing atonement, likening it to golf clubs–using different ones for different purposes (Prologue). Worth noting, McKnight’s Atonement book was published by the emerging publishing partnership of Abingdon Press and Emergent Village. McKnight is seen by the emerging church as someone who represents it. And McKnight’s website and his books confirm this with numerous favorable references on these issues. In his book Jesus Creed, he recommends a variety of books by contemplative advocates including Gary Thomas’ book, Sacred Pathways, where he instructs readers to repeat a word for twenty minutes (which is mantric like meditation) and several other authors of whom we have already mentioned in this article. One of the books McKnight recommends is Eternal Wisdom from the Desert: Writings from the Desert Fathers. St. Anthony is one of the desert fathers featured in that book. Contemplative teacher, Willigis Jager disclosed the following:

Christian literature makes reference to many episodes that parallel the
experiences of those going a yogic way. Saint Anthony, one of the first desert
mystics, frequently encountered strange and sometimes terrifying psychophysical
forces while at prayer. (Jager, Contemplation: A Christian Path, p. 72)

What is being described here is the Kundalini experience that can happen during mantric-like episodes. While McKnight does not come right out in his books and recommend practicing this, he recommends those who do. What we consider McKnight to be is a “bridger,” someone who claims orthodoxy but is actually being used as a bridge between orthodoxy and a dangerous mystical practice.

End quote.

LHRT noted in 2007:

"In emerging church leader, Scot McKnight's book, "The Real Mary: Why Evangelical Christians Can Embrace the Mother of Jesus", McKnight says that Protestant Christians are the only Christians who do not honor Mary. He recommends that Protestant churches all practice an "Honor Mary Day" (p. 144), saying she "leads us to a Jesus who brings redemption ... To listen to Mary is to hear the message of Jesus' death and resurrection as a mega-event whereby God established a new kind of power, a new kind of family, and a new kind of kingdom" (p. 145).
McKnight describes this great event as a time when the world will come together and worship Mary."

This is the same group that JP Moreland and Koukl have been involved with (yes, its a small world). Patton, head of Credo and host of "Converse With Scholars" who is a neo-Calvinist, has promoted a lot of liberalism, Emergent church junk, Eastern Orthodoxy, and denies the inerrancy of Scripture and doubts the Six Literal Days of Creation as Genesis teaches.

List of past guests on CWS here.

Rick Warren To Give Away $1 Million To His Empire

Don't believe it when Rick Warren plays "average Joe" or poorboy.

He's revealing what some of us already knew: he's raking in the bucks. In his pride which is drapped in mock humility, Tricky reveals he's a millionaire. Please don't tell me you are surprised.

Quote:

"Every time we've done these campaigns, Pastor Rick and his wife have always led the effort by saying what they're going to commit or give," he told The Christian Post. "They're committing based out of a slogan we've been using here: Not equal gifts but equal sacrifice."

Warren and his wife, Kay, have chosen to step out in faith by committing to give $1 million a year for the next three years to Saddleback.

"[T]his is how deeply we believe in the vision of this church," the California pastor said in an email to the congregation. Notably, Warren takes no salary from the church and supports his family with 9 percent of the royalties from his books while giving away the other 91 percent. He revealed that last year his personal income from his books was $87,000.

End quote. Source.

After being told yet again about how he doesn't take a salary from his church and does "reverse tithing" (which isn't biblical, and which if he had the right motives, we'd never know about it...we aren't to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing), we are then told he's going to give $1 million over the next three years to his new Decade of Destiny program to multiply his empire. How can he afford that?

What Tricky won't equally boast about is how he can afford to give away that much cool cash if he is only making $87,000 as he claims. Here's where he likely gets his money: from his interviews, seminars, and conferences, not to mention all the money gifted to him and/or his "church", all the freebies, etc.

Folks any pastor who parades around how much he isn't making isn't humble. He's prideful.

Rick Warren At Desiring "God" Conference

Discerning the Times has two videos that deal with the problem of Rick Warren's recent prostylitzing at DIDKWKOG Conference.

Warren says that too much knowledge is bad, you need to dream, and you need to buy his book on how to self-feed. This Scripture-twisting pelagianist dares to say he can teach people about studying Scripture when he consistantly teaches against ...it?

Case in point:

Quote:

Nothing happens till somebody starts dreaming. What we need today are great
dreamers."Where there is no vision, the people perish. (Proverbs 29:8)In the
last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and
daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will
dream dreams. (Acts 2:17, NIV)

End quote.

The guy just twisted these two passages yet dares to say people are given too much knowledge and then says we need to learn from his book on how to study the Bible? The guy doesn't know how to himself! He's a SELF-feeder alright.

John Piper Says We Slandered Warren: this AFTER Warren's Pelagian Teaching at DGC

From the Lighthouse Trails Research group:

Quote:

In a Christianity Today interview with popular evangelical teacher John Piper, Piper is questioned for his recent invitation of Rick Warren to his Desiring God conference, which brought criticism to Piper. In the interview, Piper states the following:

CT: You invited Rick Warren; would you say he exemplifies [your] “thinking”?

Piper: No, I don’t think he exactly exemplifies what I’m after. But he is biblical. He quoted 50 Scriptures from memory. Unbelievable, his mind is Vesuvius. So I asked him what impact reading Jonathan Edwards had on him. What these authors like Karl Barth and Edwards do for him is give him a surge of theological energy that then comes through his wiring. What I wanted to do with Rick is force him to talk about thinking so pragmatists out there can say, “A lot of thinking goes into what he does.” (emphasis added)

CT: You received some negative feedback for inviting him.

Piper: It was real risky. I don’t even know if I did the right thing. If somebody said, “Are you sure you should have invited him?” “No.” I think the first thing I’d say—maybe the only thing—is I think he’s been slandered. I think we probably need to work harder at getting him right. (emphasis added)

Lighthouse Trails authors and editors have written extensively on the teachings and promotions of Rick Warren. Our question, after reading this interview is, in what way have we slandered Rick Warren? What has been said from this ministry that is not true about Rick Warren? Has Rick Warren really been slandered, or is John Piper just another evangelical leader who gives credibility to another leader who is leading millions toward a mystical/emerging/ecumenical spirituality?

End quote.

I agree with Lighthouse. How have we slandered Warren when we've proven with facts that Warren is a false teacher and the epitome of an unbiblical teacher?

Just yesterday Warren proved me (us) right again by Tweeting that his "ministry" is ALL about him.

Interesting the man-centeredness of Piper the "Reformer". He doesn't worry about Scripture being the tool to correct theology and thinking. Theologians are seen to give men "theological energy". Whatever that is. All theology, all doctrine should be from Scripture. Period. Not dead men. Not a council. Not a book. Truth is from the Word of Truth, that is, Scripture, which alone is God-breathed and sufficent for all things pertaining to life and godliness, "that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." (2Tim. 3:16-17).

Joh 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,

Joh 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Piper is bearing false witness against us and needs to repent. He also needs to stop being a silly man and mindlessly believe what Warren tells him. He can start here. I've rarely seen anything so ridiculous in my life: a grown man, a pastor, a teacher, a "mature Christian" so easily be swayed by a snake like Warren. Its as if Piper wants to be taken in, be mesmerized, be swayed by Warren. Its very strange indeed, and not biblical by any means whatsoever.

I also find it funny how Piper keeps showing up in the media when he's supposed to be on a sabbatical. I mean, the man just can't help himself.

You might notice, too, the false humility of "I just don't know". Piper continues to use that phrase which is mock humility. He SHOULD know that it was sinful and treasonous to invite Warren to DIDKWKOG Conference; He SHOULD know that Warren is a liar and deceiver. He SHOULD know what language is acceptable or not (recall last year's X-rated parading of Driscoll at the same conference...and Piper's promo video of "not knowing" how far to go with language). "I don't know" is UNEXCUSEABLE. Its what Joel Osteen claimed over 45 times on Larry King's show a few years ago.

What's with pastors not knowing? Not being decisive? Thinking ignorance is a virtue? Its not! Ignorance and immaturity in a pastor especially, is an utter shame. And its cancerous.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came near to all the people and said, "How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him." And the people did not answer him a word.

Eph 5:15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

Spurgeon, in regard to his leaving the Baptist Union said, in "An Attempt At The Impossible" in the Sword and Trowel:

My course has been of another kind. As soon as I saw, or thought I saw, that error had become firmly established, I did not deliberate, but quitted the body at once. Since then my one counsel has been, "Come ye out from among them." If I have rejoiced in the loyalty to Christ's truth which has been shown in other courses of action, yet I have felt that no protest could be equal to that of distinct separation from known evil.

I may, however, venture to express the opinion, that the evangelical brethren in the Association have acted with much kindness, and have shown a strong desire to abide in union with others, if such union could he compassed without the sacrifice of truth.

The points mentioned were certainly elementary enough, and we did not wonder that one of the brethren exclaimed, "May God help those who do not believe these things! Where must they be?" Indeed, little objection was taken to the statements which were tabulated, but the objection was to a belief in these being made indispensable to membership. It was as though it had been said, "Yes, we believe in the Godhead of the Lord Jesus; but we would not keep a man out of our fellowship because he thought our Lord to be a mere man. We believe in the atonement; but if another man rejects it, he must not, therefore, be excluded from our number."

To this hour, I must confess that I do not understand the action of either side in this dispute, if viewed in the white light of logic. Why should they wish to be together? Those who wish for the illimitable fellowship of men of every shade of belief or doubt would be all the freer for the absence of those stubborn evangelicals who have cost them so many battles. The brethren, on the other hand, who have a doctrinal faith, and prize it, must have learned by this time that whatever terms may be patched up, there is no spiritual oneness between themselves and the new religionists. They must also have felt that the very endeavor to make a compact which will tacitly be understood in two senses, is far from being an ennobling and purifying exercise to either party.The brethren in the middle are the source of this clinging together of discordant elements. These who are for peace at any price, who persuade themselves that there is very little wrong, who care chiefly to maintain existing institutions, these are the good people who induce the weary combatants to repeat the futile attempt at a coalition, which, in the nature of things, must break down. If both sides could be unfaithful to conscience, or if the glorious gospel could be thrust altogether out of the question, there might be a league of amity established; but as neither of these things can be, there would seem to be no reason for persevering in the-attempt to maintain a confederacy for which there is no justification in fact, and from which there can be no worthy result, seeing it does not embody a living truth. A desire for unity is commendable. Blessed are they who can promote it and preserve it! But there are other matters to be considered as well as unity, and sometimes these may even demand the first place. When union becomes a moral impossibility, it may almost drop out of calculation in arranging plans and methods of working. If it is clear as the sun at noonday that no real union can exist, it is idle to strive after the impossible, and it is wise to go about other and more practicable business.

End quote.

Rick Warren Tweets: Its all about ME!

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease." 31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.



"What people SAY with their mouths SHOWS what's in the hearts & THOSE are the things that make people unclean"'Jesus Mt5:18 about 5 hours ago via web Retweeted by 72 people

RickWarren
Rick Warren

So, when he says:

"Everytime haters attack me ,I get 2,000 new followers! Free PR! "They mean it for bad but God means it for good"Gen50:20"

RickWarren
Rick Warren

7:13 AM Oct 11th via web Retweeted by 57 people

...we can see what's in his heart: idol worship of himself! Where he gets that number can only be found in one place: his dark egotistical imagination. But he proves he's nothing more than a self-promoter, in love with himself, and set on numbers. He doesn't know Christ nor His gospel, therefore he can only talk about himself and his followers that are increasing by the thousands. Where's Christ Jesus in all of this? There's no room with all that pride. And by the way, the Road to Eternal life is NARROW and few that find it, Warren. A heart is already unclean because of the sin nature. But this Pelagian doesn't even understand the basic Gospel. Romans 1-7 bears this out clearly. Yet he's "theologically sound"??

I wonder if Piper and PiperFans get it yet?

Rick Warren Continues To Dig His Hole Deeper

Apprising Ministries has an update on Tricky Warren's latest Tweeting, trying to defend his pathetically immature and fleshly Tweet yesterday about daring any church to come up with more mature, godly christians than those at his church.

Now he's saying that "Paul COMAPREDMacedonia church's committment to Corinth's and challenged them to MATCH it 2 Cor. 8:1-8. Wise teaching too." (caps original)

He went on to say more but this will be sufficient.

Tricky continues to dig his hole deeper. To compare what he's doing to that of Paul is insane. Besides being a Christian, which Warren is not, Paul never called for a competition between churches EVER. Following the examples of others in completing a committment is not the same as competing over spirituality. In fact it was Paul who said we don't compare ourselves with ourselves; the irony is that Paul was dealing with false apostles who thought of themselves as very spiritual and authoritative--the very thing Rick Warren does:

2Co 10:11 Let such a person consider this, that what we are in word by letters when absent, such persons we are also in deed when present.
2Co 10:12 For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.
2Co 10:13 But we will not boast beyond our measure, but within the measure of the sphere which God apportioned to us as a measure, to reach even as far as you.
2Co 10:14 For we are not overextending ourselves, as if we did not reach to you, for we were the first to come even as far as you in the gospel of Christ;
2Co 10:15 not boasting beyond our measure, that is, in other men's labors, but with the hope that as your faith grows, we will be, within our sphere, enlarged even more by you,
2Co 10:16 so as to preach the gospel even to the regions beyond you, and not to boast in what has been accomplished in the sphere of another.
2Co 10:17 But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD.

Tricky is so inept, its pathetic. Oh wait, Camp and Piper call him a solid, mature, evangelical PASTOR. How in the world can they think such a thing with the on-going immature, fleshly, Christ-less blatherings of Warren?

Piper and Contemplative Prayer: Rome Had It Right

Piper embraces Contemplative praying even from Romanists (despite his excepting of its mere "bad theology") as reported by Apprising Ministries.

Here we have Contemplative prayer redefined (slaps on "Christian" and "Puritan" and says its the same thing) by Piper just as he redefines hedonism by slapping on "Christian".

This is what I mean when I say many like Piper find "truth in everything", even if it is in Rome. Piper is charismatic which is another reason why he is attracted to the mysticism and is so man-centered. Touchy, feely, emotionally driven is not biblically based. And Rome has nothing right: their practices stem from their damnable doctrines of hell. But I guess that's merely "bad theology".

What does God say about mixing the old with the new?

In salvation:

Mar 2:21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the patch tears away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear is made. 22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins--and the wine is destroyed, and so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins."

In worship:

Unleaven bread for the Passover and the Lord's Table
Unmixed fabric for the priests (Ex. 28)

In relationships:

No inter-marrying with other nations (Deut. 7)

In all three:

No fellowship between Jesus and Baal; unbeliever and believer; light and darkness (2Cor. 6:14-18)

How did God instruct Israel to conduct their lives and worship toward God? Was God ok with mixing truth with error?

Deu 7:2 and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.
Deu 7:3 "Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.
Deu 7:4 "For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you. Deu 7:5 "But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.
Deu 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

So did they obey God?

Psa 106:34 They did not destroy the peoples, As the LORD commanded them,
Psa 106:35 But they mingled with the nations And learned their practices,
Psa 106:36 And served their idols, Which became a snare to them.
Psa 106:37 They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons,
Psa 106:38 And shed innocent blood, The blood of their sons and their daughters, Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; And the land was polluted with the blood.
Psa 106:39 Thus they became unclean in their practices, And played the harlot in their deeds.
Psa 106:40 Therefore the anger of the LORD was kindled against His people And He abhorred His inheritance.
Psa 106:41 Then He gave them into the hand of the nations, And those who hated them ruled over them.
Psa 106:42 Their enemies also oppressed them, And they were subdued under their power.
Psa 106:43 Many times He would deliver them; They, however, were rebellious in their counsel, And so sank down in their iniquity.

Roman Catholicism has many pagan practices because it is not of Christ. So why would Piper and Keller and Warren go to pagans and idolators to find spiritual truth?

Practice DOES matter. If its not ordained by God according to Scripture and rather comes from pagans, it stirs His anger, for He is a jealous and holy holy holy God. Only those in Christ have the Light of Truth in them for the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit abides in them. Lest you think "that was the OT times, its ok to find truth in error; we can borrow from unbelievers in our worship of God", you better reconsider:

2Co 6:14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?2Co 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
2Co 6:17 "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.
2Co 6:18 "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.

God's standard hasn't change, because HE hasn't changed.

Mal 3:5 "Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts. 6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.7 "From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," says the LORD of hosts. "But you say, 'How shall we return?'

Heb 12:28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9 Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

Remember Romans 12:1-2?

God is Holy and expects those who follow Him to grow in holiness by His Grace. Just as God struck down Achan and his family for stealing and then lying about it (Joshua 7:1-26), so God destroyed Ananias and Sapphira for the same thing (Acts 5:1-13).

To go to Rome or the New Age mystics in any form is to commit treason against the King of Kings and Lord of lords.

Isa 55:6 "Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, 11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Cut Rick Warren Slack? You Can't Be Serious!

Today I read Frank Turk's comments on Rick Warren, which he said in part:

"In that respect, I think there’s a lot of room to cut Rick Warren some slack. I’m not his apologist or cheerleader — I think he could be a lot more robust and clear about the things he does — but at the same time I’m not sure it’s completely useful to make him into a Gospel-changer because he thinks that a Gospel without real-life consequences is not the Gospel".
Turk continues to believe, as apparently the rest of the Team Pyro guys, that Warren is a brother in the Lord, but he just merely needs to tighten up on certain aspects of the Gospel.

Warren is NOT a Christian. He has a FALSE gospel. You cannot tweak a lie to make it true. Why is it so impossible for Reformers to call Warren a false teacher and unsaved?

The deafness and blindness of many "educated" men is appalling and unimpressive. They refuse to call a spade a spade, except when they can't stand the Light of Truth exposing their own error in doctrine and conduct. If only they would be as vociferous with false teachers like Warren as they are with actual Christians.

Here is what I wrote in response:

Cut a false teacher some slack? Are you serious? WHERE is that in Scripture, exactly? Rick Warren doesn’t have the gospel of Jesus Christ. Rick Warren has been proven repeatedly over the years to be a wolf. Frank, I wonder exactly how you would even detect a false teacher among Christians….or would you even care? “Truth in everything” seems to be the rallying cry these days instead of AVOID, Separate, reject a man…not merely parts of a man’s teaching, but reject the entire man if he’s a false teacher as defined according to Scripture. Its amazing how “Evangelicals” will consider biblical doctrine as optional. God doesn’t.

2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Don't receive him or greet him. I'd say that would also mean deny him any access to any platform in front of God's sheep. In other words, don't give the man any means by which to teach God's children, for he's a deceiver. Otherwise, even GREETING the man (in other words, considering him a brother, giving him some "slack") IS to participate in his wicked deeds.

Spurgeon got it right and seems to address the same mentality and hue and cry today as it was in his day when he said:

“There are some with whom we should have no fellowship, nay, not so much as to eat bread; for though this conduct looks stern and hard, it is after the mind of Christ, for the apostle spake by inspiration when he said, “If we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that ye have received, let him be accursed…

According to modern efficiency he ought to have said, “Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the thought was original, and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless, he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms.”~Spurgeon

No where in all of Scripture are we to consider a wolf to be a Christian, nor give him any slack. Jesus showed us how to deal with false teachers: we are to expose them and warn the sheep to AVOID them.

Today, there seems to be the mentality of no such thing as a REAL heretic among Christians. Truth can be found among those with a "slightly different" gospel. Any change in the gospel means the gospel is false and can't save and the person is condemned according to Gal. 1:8-9.

Scripture is crystal clear. Too bad "leaders" and vocal people don't see it as God has revealed it.

More at Apprising Ministries on this issue here.

Michael Horton to Share Pulpit With Kay and Rick Warren

Look who's holding hands now: Rick Warren, Michael Horton, Kay Warren, and others.

Apparently the big pow-wow is about the "Global church" future.



Dr. Soong Chan Rah from North Park Theolgoical Seminary will be speaking. Northpark Theological Seminary is liberal and feministic as well as Emergent.


Kay Warren will be teaching men. As I have shown before, Ricky IS a feminist and DOES believe women can teach men in the pulpit. He merely played word games with Piper when he said women should not hold the "office" of elder. Warren never said and will never say, that women can't teach men, simply because he believes they can and should. This has been his belief for years. Yet Piper is either ignoring what has been widely known, or he himself is a feminist. Then again, he shares the platform with feminist and false teacher Beth Moore as well as promotes her at his church. Apparently Michael Horton doesn't have a problem with this either. Neither does John Frame and Keller!





Reformer/Presbyterian Michael Horton will be speaking at Warren's "church" and share the pulpit with Kay Warren. This is what I mean when I say Reformers believe there is Truth in everything. There's not a heretic alive according to these Reformers. Then again Horton and the Whitehorse Inn see RCC as a valid church just with differing views (Presybeterians have to because by their own admission Presbyterian founders came out of the RCC--they also see the RCC's view of history and its "church fathers" as valid as well). So why not join hands with Rick Warren and Lausanne Congress leaders?

Lausanne Congress is where Piper will be speaking this October. Its VERY ecumenical. Piper is on the board along with Warren for Lausanne. I have info on the Lausanne conference.


These "Reformer" types are extremely man-centered and liberal. Horton, Piper, Keller---they are CANCER to Christianity because they embrace and promote error and false teachers. They believe there is truth in everything, so they don't reject an entire ministry, man, college, book, church, or movement. To them, biblical doctrine is all optional. Its a matter of one's views and methods. That's all it is for these public figures. Its absolutely a disgrace!
*Update*
More speakers at this Ecumenical Conference Series (hosted by Lusanne):

Darrin Patrick
Joni Erickson Tada - also signed the Manhattan Declaration
Ligon Duncon
Matt Chandler
Os Guiness
Michael Horton
Richard Mouw
Tim Keller - also signed the Manhattan Declaration

Kay Warren: Orphans Are the Litmus Test of Being A Christian

Mat 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Mat 6:2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

"Don't call yourself a Christian if you aren't caring for orphans," Kay Warren said at the recent Catalyst West Conference.

My thoughts are in italics.

Quote:

"If we are doing little to nothing, how dare we, how dare we claim to be followers of Jesus Christ," she said Friday. "Followers of Jesus Christ care about widows and orphans and they understand that it is a litmus test.

"It is not an option."

A litmus test? Who defines "little" "nothing" or "enough"? Its Kay. Read on.

The Litmust test: Scripture says:

2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

Joh 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."

Is. 8 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

As for the issue of orphans:

First of all those of us in the USA pay a lot of money to the poor and needy, not just here but worldwide. That's a fact. Also, its presumptuious for Warren to dictate how we live out our faith--what if we are not given the opportunity to PERSONALLY house and feed orphans? What happened to our priority to our own families God has given to us first?

Also:

Jas 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.... 26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."

Kay purportedly is borrowing from James on orphans, however her twist is not in the context of Scripture. The context of caring for orphans is about obeying the Truth of Scripture versus hypocrisy. Doctrine dictates our behavior. If a person claims to be religious but isn't bearing fruit, they should examine themselves to see if they are in The Faith. We are to obey the WORD, not some woman's social justice band wagon. Kay's agenda is that poverty can and shall be eradicated via her husband's 5 point PEACE plan: "1. Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger"

James isn't saying you if you don't care for the orphans, then you aren't a Christian. After all, the poor we will always have with us.What he IS saying is that hypocrisy is wrong. He's showing the nature of true salvation. Considering that the Warrens don't have The Gospel makes Kay's words all the more hypocritical. God says TRUE religion, that is, true FAITH is a heart issue and grounded in biblical Truth.

Warren wants the orphan issue to determine who's saved or not, but she ignores the REST of the verse: "and to keep oneself unstained from the world. " This she and her husband have NOT done. The Warrens are infested with worliness and the world hears them for they are of the world (1John 4:5).

I also believe 1John 3:17 would bear light on this issue as well: 1Jn 3:17 "But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? "18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

The weighty words were delivered to thousands of church and ministry leaders on the final day of Catalyst West, a three-day conference designed to challenge leaders to be change agents in the culture.

Warren is violating clear Scripture:

1Tim2: 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

James 3:1 says not many should become teachers, and that includes Kay and Rick Warren.

Kay's twisting of the orphan issue shows exactly why women are not to teach men. This isn't the only issue she's been wrong on; she's also pro-homosexuality and has taught men in the past as well.

"It has nothing to do with personality, it has nothing to do with spiritual gifts, it has nothing to do with economic status, it has nothing to do with your season in life," she stressed. "It has to do with accepting the responsibility that God will one day hold us accountable."

She's right on this one thing: her view on orphans has NOTHING to do with spirituality. Rather its merely social justice that the pagans participate in to soothe their guilty conscience or to look better than the next guy. Its fleshly, not spiritual. Its legalism. And its what Rick's PEACE plan is here to save the day.

And it's not just a matter of personal responsibility either, she indicated.

There is a theological reason all Christians are to do something to help vulnerable children.
Warren highlighted: "What our Heavenly Father does for us spiritually, He expects us to do physically."

This is not supported by Scripture as some sort of mandate. This is nonsense. How can you do physically was is spiritual? By its very definition, its not physical. Besides that, this is a twisting of Scripture. For instance how will she atone for her sin? How does one do PHYSICALLY what Jesus did on the cross? She's the one who said what God does for us spiritual He EXPECTS US TO DO PHYSICALLY. Doesn't this smack of Romanism?

"You and I were all spiritual orphans," she said. "We're not just cleared of the guilt of our sin. We belong in God's family. He has taken us and made us part of Himself.

"Now He shares with me everything that He has. Everything that belonged to Jesus belongs to us."

Again, I don't know where she gets this notion. First of all, we either have God as our Father or the Devil:

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

We aren't spiritual orphans. Also we are not part of God. This is like Rick's sympathy to panentheism views. Its pagan. We are IN Christ, those who are truly saved that is, but God does not make us part of Himself. He is always distinct from His creation.

While Christians have a spiritual home, there are 143 million children around the world who don't even have a physical home.

What does "spiritual home" mean? If she means a church, then that is NOT comparable to a physical home. God commands us to be in a local church, which He provides. But not all His children have physical homes (think of Christians who were dispersed during the first century for instance, but still had biblical churches---or those who sold their homes for money to give to brothers truly in need). This is earthly thinking. Jesus did not have an earthly home. And no, I'm not saying its good to be homeless. What I am saying, is that Kay again, is twisting what Scripture says. Consider that in her view, since we who are truly in Christ are blessed by God with every spiritual blessing and spiritual riches, therefore that means that all 143 million children (where did she get that number?) should have all the riches in the world? Can spiritual riches even have an earthly price tag? How in the world can spiritual blessings have any equivilance to the temporal, fallen things of the earth?

Yet many believers likely are unable to name the names of five orphans, Warren noted.

And? This is the test? List five names of orphans? Seriously? If someone can name six are they better than one who can name 3? And does how knowing or not knowing the names of orphans matter?

What about those who live in remote places where there are no orphans? What if someone is too poor to support an orphan? And how does Warren define "orphan"? I've witnessed a woman claiming to be so poor that she can't feed her "orphan son". She was typing this online. On a computer. So these things need to be defined. Additionally, this is a pride issue.

The orphan advocate clarified that the Bible isn't necessarily calling every person to adopt a child. She and her husband, renowned pastor Rick Warren, have not adopted, she noted.

Yes, do as they say, not as they do. But they'll brag about what they do, too.

But, she added, the Bible does say Christians have a personal responsibility to do something, whether it's contributing to the fund of a family trying to adopt, providing house cleaning for a family that adopted, or getting involved with church sponsorship of children.

Where does the Bible COMMAND this? Seriously, cleaning for a family who has adopted? The wife can't clean her own house? Why? What does having an adopted child have to do with that?And what about the family that is raising their children in a godly way? They're what, less worthy? This is elitism and really, Phariseeism. Is Kay cleaning houses? Why won't she adopt? She said the "season in life" is not an excuse. And when is enough, enough, according to Kay?

At the same time, it's not enough to simply send some money or place children in orphanages.

There's your answer. So she slams people for not meeting her expectations regarding orphans, and when they DO do something as she said they should, she then says that's not enough. What a harsh task master.

"God is a relational God," she said. "And orphanage is an institutional solution."

End quote.

Social justice defines a TRUE Christian, she says. And this from a woman who has no idea what biblical doctrine is, much less what a biblical church is and what its called to do.

I wonder if John and Noel Piper are fine with their new buddy's wife teaching men? Oh wait, Ricky told Piper he thinks women should not be hold the office elders. Yet his wife repeatedly teaches men. I pointed this out years ago too. Warren IS a feminist. Both of them are. But hey, what's biblical doctrine and obeying it?

And what about the widows? Where is her litmus test for that? We know that Scripture says the family is to look after their widows first and if they have no family, then the church they are members of, should care for ONLY the widows in DEED and 60 years or older--those who truly have NO HELP at all. This IS a command of God to the local church in 1Tim. 5.

The problem is that we have "Christian" families that are splintered and destroyed by immorality, selfishness, and divorce. "We" can't even get our act together in marriage let alone raising our own flesh and blood, but Warren commands such horrific families to be religious by adopting MORE kids they can't care for? The churches can't even function somewhat biblically, but she says the issue of orphans are THE TEST of faith? Just what is she proposing to do with that "143 million" group of children? Dump them into families where neither parent is home? Where the mom is out working and throws her own kids into daycare?

Did Kay Warren ever consider why these children are orphaned? And is this tied to Rick's horrific PEACE plan?

You betchya.

This Catalyst conference was chock full of Emergents including women teaching men. Emergent leaders speaking include:

Andy Stanley
Dallas Willard
Erwin McManus
Kay Warren
Mark Driscoll
John Ortberg

Others:

Charlene Li
Don Miller
Eugene Cho
Louie Giglio
Reggie Joiner
Scott Belsky
Wess Stafford
Chris Tomlin

Some of the Sponsors:

Compassion International
David C. Cook
Indiana Wesleyan University
Alpha USA
Fuller Theological SeminaryNavPress
Saddleback Community Church
XXX Church

For the record, because I know I'll get some snarky comments about how I hate the orphans and have no compassion, etc. etc., as I have already stated, I'm taxed out the wazoo to pay for the homeless, the hungry, the widowed and the orphans. I will not disclose what I do for anyone because that would be prideful, fleshly, and letting the "right hand know what the left hand is doing".

In addition to that, I have given Scripture that talks about the heart issue when we see a brother in need and have the means to meet that need but refuse to do so. "Brother" and "need" are key words here. So caring for orphans is a GOOD thing, but it is not the litmus test of a true Christian. After all, the Roman Catholic Church, Theresa of Calcutta, the Mormons, etc. can do all of this as well, but they do not have a religion that is truly of God--not of Truth according to Scripture.

And remember this: Kay's agenda is the PEACE plan--with the hope to change our society and churches into socialistic states. This is a factor that cannot be ignored.

Hypocrisy

I just read Terri's blog on the hypocrisy of one Piper's defenders and a big boy blogger here. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees the hypocrisy on multiple levels.

This double standard is nothing short of bullying those of us who have for years, sought to stand for the Truth without apology, wavering, and favoritism.

I've noted in this post how "shrill" and emotive the apostles were regarding false teachers.

People, the enemy is in the camp already! The wolves, offered by "shepherds" ARE TEARING THE SHEEP TO SHREADS! And yet you think its not important enough to wage war? I see loyalty to theological circles and personalities, NOT to CHRIST AND HIM ALONE AT ALL COSTS.

Piper: Promoting "Evangelical" Fads

"I do think he’s deeply theological. He’s a brilliant man. He wouldn’t have the church he does or the Peace Plan, or all the influence he does and of course the greatest sentence in the Purpose Driven Life is the first one isn’t it? It’s not about you, it’s about God. The Glory of God. So I don’t think he’s emergent. At root I think he is theological and doctrinal and sound.” ~Piper from the audio

It seems inconsistant with what Johnson himself said a few years ago about Rick Warren:

Excerpts:

But let’s set the critiques aside for a moment. Even if we had no bone to pick with the content or the underlying philosophy of The Purpose Driven Life—is this a really the kind of book that deserves to be the best-selling evangelical work of all time? Is there anything profound or original or exceptionally brilliant about the content of this book? Is it great literature, or especially superb Bible teaching, or excellent theology made understandable in simple terms? It’s none of those things. The extraordinary success of this book stems from a very clever marketing scheme that targeted a specific market at the most opportune time. It hit the shelves at a moment when the evangelical culture was ripe for fads and stampedes.

In The Purpose Driven Church, he says this:
At Saddleback Church we’ve . . . tried to recognize the waves God was sending our way, and we’ve learned to catch them. We’ve learned to use the right equipment to ride those waves, and we’ve learned the importance of balance. We’ve also learned to get off dying waves whenever we sensed God wanted to do something new. The amazing thing is this: The more skilled we become in riding waves of growth, the more God sends!

Ah! so that’s why we have this proliferation of fads. Evangelicals have gotten so skilled at surfing the latest fashions that God just sends more and more of them. And they get bigger every time.
Today’s fad may seem benign enough if you don’t care much about biblical discernment. Rick Warren says he just wants to meet people’s “felt needs” and insists he wants to remain biblical at the same time. Where’s the harm in that? But that philosophy is wrong and unbiblical, because it’s contrary to Paul’s clear command in 2 Timothy 4, to preach the word and refuse to cater to the itch of people’s “felt needs.” Meanwhile, all these fads are moving us further from our evangelical commitment to the principles of sola fide and sola Scriptura.

End quote.

Its ok that Piper promotes the very fad and anti-biblical philosophy he just repudiated some years back? Is it right to defend a man behind a pulpit who consistantly, repeatedly, and defiantly offers false teachers? Does this not show a lack of biblical doctrine and practice, wisdom and discernment?

Perhaps its all mere opinion, including unfaithfully preaching the word and parading around a false teacher. So its not so much unbiblical or wrong, but just different?

Is Biblical Doctrine Optional?

2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

As Apprising Ministries is reporting, Reformed Blogger Adrian Warnock is fully supporting Piper in his invitation of Rick Warren to the Desiring I Don't Know What Kind Of God Conference.

What has Piper done to merrit such uncritical, unrelenting, full support of such destructive teachers and doctrine?

The rejection of the Doctrine of Separation is yet ONE MORE DOCTRINE DEEMED AS OPTIONAL.

Is there a man these Reformed bloggers and pastors would be willing to wholy and completely separate from? On what basis?

The claim of Piper having a "unique gifting and authority" is odd. I don't see anything unique here (he might as well say (or does he?) about Warren or Hinn or Graham?), except that he has a wide audience that crosses denominational lines. When someone is so widely popular without hardly any criticism, that should be a red flag. Why? Because it means that compromise is going on.

Don't believe me? Then ask yourself this:


Is Justification by faith alone an optional doctrine?

Is foul-mouth language and sexually explict talk an optional way to preach and live?

Is a different gospel an option?

Is finding common ground with those in darkness possible?

If you believe Scripture, the answer to all the above should be: NO. This is based on multitude of biblical passages throughout Scripture.

Justification can ONLY be by faith alone apart from works:

Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works…

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person NOT JUSTIFIED BY WORKS of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and NOT BY WORKS of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Foul mouths and sexually charged language:

Eph. 4: 29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Eph 5:3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

A different gospel isn’t optional:

Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to A DIFFERENT GOSPEL-- 7 NOT THAT THERE IS ANOTHER ONE, but there are some who trouble you and want to DISTORT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you A GOSPEL CONTRARY to the one we preached to you LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Titus 2: 1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

False Teachers and the Doctrine of Separation:

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Mar 13:22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; AVOID THEM. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 

2Co 11:12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you NOT TO ASSOCIATE with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals." (1Co 15:33)

Tit 1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

2Jo 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2Tim. 4: 14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done. 15 You too should be on your guard against him, because he strongly opposed our message.

3 John 9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will have nothing to do with us. 10 So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church. 11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.

2 Tim. 2: 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

Are you willing to say that despite all that God has said in the above passages, its still ok to strutt a false teacher in front of the sheep?

Common Ground with Those Outside Jesus Christ:

2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, 18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."

3Jn 1:7 For they have gone out for the sake of the name, accepting nothing from the Gentiles.

Jesus calls for whole churches to repent of the tolerance of false teaching among their midst. He certainly did not say just to ignore the bad parts. His rebuke was widespread:

Rev 2:2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. 15 So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden. 25 Only hold fast what you have until I come.

The myth of “fair and balanced” (offering truth alongside falsehood; false teachers and true teachers) as biblical is repudiated by Christ Himself.

Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. 15 "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

Mat 16:6 Jesus said to them, "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

1Co 5:8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?

Gal 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?

A Year Later: Chillin With False Teachers

A revisit to an excellent article written n 2009: Chillin' With False Teachers: Another View by Ingrid Schlueter:

In part says:

Rick Warren has been on a PR campaign to win over his critics for some time now. A year ago, I and other writers who have been exposing the man-centered false teachings of Rick Warren and his rejection of biblical evangelism (going to synagogues and mosques to tell them how to use Purpose-Driven methods to grow) were personally invited on an all-expenses paid trip to Saddleback to meet with Warren. Apparently, the thinking was that if we could just meet Rick, encounter his magnetic and winning personality, be impressed with his fabulous church campus and personal importance, we would tone down our rhetoric and cease to be critics. I personally turned down the invitation. A man who has sold as many books as Rick Warren, features his sermons online and who has been virtually omnipresent in Christian and secular media in the last few years does not need to explain his teachings in person. I am not interested in Rick Warren’s personality, charm or expensive facilities. I do not object to the man on personal grounds. I object to Rick Warren based on what he has taught and written, because it does not line up with Scripture. This is essential to understand.

Rick Warren’s defenders, like the Reformed blogger in question, like to protray Warren critics as having a personal axe to grind with the Purpose-Driven author and as being harsh, unfair and unloving. We are painted as portraying Rick Warren as some sort of red-caped fiend, permanently surrounded by a sulfurous cloud, demonic laughter coming out of his mouth. What nonsense. Of course, Rick Warren is a congenial, friendly guy who is no doubt charming to be next to at a dinner gathering. He would make a great golf partner, host at a BBQ and, no doubt, would be the life of any party. He is likely compassionate, a good neighbor and he would stop to help you if you had a flat tire on a lonely highway. Then again, I could say the same for my Mormon neighbor, or the Hindu family that lives down the street, or the Unitarians up the block.

The people I have worked with over the years in exposing Purpose-Driven’s false teachings have not been interested in Rick’s personality. They have consistently addressed Rick’s teachings, line by line. These are men such as Pastor Bob DeWaay, who has not only met with Rick personally, but has taken his teachings and held them up to the light of Scripture in his excellent book, Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose-Driven Movement, or Joseph Farah, a newsman who has corresponded with Rick Warren over his outrageous role as apologist for Syria and North Korea, or Chris Rosebrough who sat in a room at Saddleback with Rick Warren and personally discussed the specifics of Warren’s false teachings. DeWaay, Farah and Rosebrough were not interested in Rick’s personality. They focused on his teachings.

Warren, after these meetings, is unchanged. He recently addressed a Muslim convention and never once preached Christ crucified. He instead invited the followers of Allah to embark on a joint campaign with Christians to solve the world’s social ills. Warren continues to advise non-Christian religious groups how to grow their cause using his own Purpose-Driven methodology.

While the Reformed blogger prides himself on being able to hand bouquets to Mr. Warren despite their disagreements on certain issues, the tragic spiritual reality remains. I have heard for years from Purpose-Driven refugees whose churches have been destroyed by the teachings of Rick Warren. There are spiritual victims who limp off into the night, wondering what in the world happened to the churches they have loved and supported for years. No one has done greater damage to the true Gospel in the American evangelical church than Rick Warren with his man-centered teachings and emphasis on works, churches driven by entertainment to please the unregenerate and draw large crowds, his abandonment of biblical evangelism in favor of a social gospel, his de-emphasis on sound doctrine, and his participation with international political organizations who openly work for inter-spiritual apostasy.

From Crosstalk Blog.

Again I say, as I did last year, well said! And look how far we've now come? Now Piper, who clearly has a larger following than Challies (that's just so wrong anyway), has invited and is defiantly defending Rick Warren--as are many Reformers now as they follow the Pied Piper. You think it can't get any worse? Bet you said that last year.

Just wait.

Piper: its all about Me

Watcher's Lamp blog pegs Pipergate well:

"What John Piper conveys is his confidence in his personal ability to qualify Warren's theology by asking theological questions. John Piper apparently believes that he is immune to deception because of his theological brilliance.

Smugness is revealed when John Piper laughs when he says "I’m gonna need help to know why I should feel bad about this decision." It seems pride may be blinding John Piper's discernment. "

He goes on to say:

It seems pride may be blinding John Piper's discernment.

"So I made a list"

"I think Rick Warren meant it when he began the Purpose Driven life with “It’s not about you."

"I could even tell you other things he said he’s not but that… that might offend uh… too many people."

"I… I’m uh… I’m uh… I need … I’m gonna need help to know why I should feel bad about this decision. (Laughs)"

Read more here.

(Does anyone else think he's sounding a lot like Warren here?)

I wonder, if Piper was shown how horrific the PDL book is and Warren's myriad of quotes of heresy, would he still promote him as a friend, Reformed, and "theologically deep"? I say yes, because there's never enough evidence for a skeptic. Note that he put the burden of proof on everyone else. The thing is we've already proven the heresies of Rick Warren and PIPER HAS NOT LISTENED ALL THESE YEARS!

Other lesser known pastors have done their research and came to a completely opposite conclusion than Piper regarding Warren: he is not only NOT theologically "deep", but he gives a false gospel. What does Scripture say about such a person? Welcome them to the pulpit? Warmly greet them? Defend them as brothers? It says such a man is ANATHEMA. It says DON'T EVEN GREET such a man, for to do so is to partake in his wicked deeds. (Gal. 1:8-9; 2John 9-11).

When Phil Johnson gets snarky and calls us "shrill" and "hysterical" its godly (and then he quotes a HERETIC, Doug Wilson, about needing to calm down so we don't have to "breath into a paper bag"! A heretic telling the sheep to simmer down, that there's nothing to worry about? The Serpent Speaketh!), but when we rightly deal with his pal Piper, he calls us "insulting" and that we need to be respectful toward Piper. I guess we aren't worthy of respect from Johnson. Its ok for him to insult us---we're nobodies in his eyes. I'm so glad God uses the weak, the insignificant, the uneducated, the feeble, to display HIS glory and power.

This is the sin of favoritism James talks about which God condemns without qualification:

Jas 2:1 My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory... 3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the poor man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet," 4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?Jas 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

Insert "the one who has a seminary degree" or "the one who is a famous pastor" for "the one who wears fine clothing" and you see the issue is just as relevant today as it was back then.

See what it would look like:

Jas 2:1 My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory... 3 and if you pay attention to the one who is famous and a seminary graduate and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the unknow and uneducated man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet," 4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

I don't like inserting words into Scripture, but I do it to visually demonstrate the issue of the sin of favoritism. Its easier to write off if one thinks its merely about the rich vs. the poor. But its MORE than that. Its about favoring a group or person over another, which is evil according to God.

Rom 2:11 For God shows no partiality.

Gal 2:6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me.

And of elders: 1Ti 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.

Partiality or favoritism is the issue of sin here--no matter if you are talking about rich vs. poor, educated vs. uneducated, inner circle of the elite vs. outside the circle and not of the elite.